For example, if I talk about “magic”, most of you will tell me I’m wrong without even asking me what I mean. You might even insult me.

How common is this? How much of this conversation is actual communication vs just a string of triggering phrases that we react to?

How much of Lemmy is people just barking at their own echo?

  • The_Grinch [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    20·
    9 days ago

    It’s hard to conceive of anything you would likely mean by “magic” that would result in a productive conversation. The fact you don’t want to elaborate when asked leads me to believe we probably happen to be correct to have that reaction in this case.

    • The_Grinch [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      23·
      9 days ago

      Looking at your post that started this, multiple people were asking you what you meant by it, and being perfectly patient with you.

      To quote purpleworm from that thread “Calling something natural “magic” with no further context to explain that it’s a metaphor is obscurantist.”

    • fluffy8192 [undecided, undecided]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      3·
      9 days ago

      How about “In my experience with psychedelics and meditation I have encountered a mechanic, a way of addressing reality, that, for lack of a better term, I shall refer to as magic”?

      Does that float your boat?

      That dead mundane point clarified, can we get back to the point of my post?

      • The_Grinch [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        15·
        9 days ago

        Does that float your boat?

        No, not really. You haven’t actually told me anything more about what “magic” means to you. From my perspective I’m addressing the crux of your point, because if what I suspect is going on is true, you don’t actually have one. Regardless, I’m not diverting from your point if you ignore me, which you’re perfectly free to do.

        • fluffy8192 [undecided, undecided]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          2·
          9 days ago

          Well that’s where actual experience comes in. With the psychedelics, the meditation and noticing the thing. And if you haven’t delved there and noticed the thing, then you haven’t. End of that conversation.

          So how about the point in my OP? You got anything to day about that?

      • The_Grinch [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        19·
        9 days ago

        Yeah? This is a materialist space. If you say something that isn’t materialist you’re going to have that pointed out to you and asked to take it elsewhere. Magic is by definition that which is not materialist.

        How much effort are we expected to put in to try to understand someone who clearly doesn’t want to be understood?

        • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          8·
          9 days ago

          I love how you’re talking about materialist thought like you’re applying that here. You aren’t. Materialism requires investigation. It requires context. You don’t have any of that in this instance because you didn’t try to ask.

          Sure, let’s take magic, because I think that’s a fun one and I’ve had some interesting conversations with folks with different cultural contexts for “magic” in my life. In the white western “Harry Potter” context, magic is bullshit. Wizards can’t go around and set fire with magic sticks and summon magic owls or whatever. Great, nobody is arguing that. Probably. If they are, it would be an interesting discussion although probably not a very serious one. Would love to have that conversation though regardless.

          Turns out though there are many, many other historical and cultural contexts for “magic”. Those absolutely could be less bullshit. And in those contexts they are less bullshit. Some medicine are called magic or have a strong basis in “magic”. Some therapeutic practices are called magic or have a strong basis in “magic.” Even within the white western cultural context there is an entire form of theater that is called “magic” and I can assure you that, as a form of art, theater, and entertainment, “magic” is very real. If you disagree with that then you may as well go to your local art gallery and point out how none of the paintings are real either. Ceci n’est pas une pipe indeed.

          But you don’t know any of that, you said yourself it is “hard to conceive” any of this. It’s hard for your to concieve because you have absolutely zero interest in knowing. You didn’t ask. You decided with literally zero investigation that you were automatically correct, and chose to fight about it because how dare someone say something “wrong” on the internet. You saw one thing exactly one way, did zero thought past that, and attacked. You had a chance to learn something, to grow and expand your knowledge of the world we live in, to find connection with others in a community you’re choosing to participate in, to find common ground…and you chose to fight instead. For absolutely no fucking reason.

          What you and many users who jump automatically to bad faith “I’m right you’re wrong lalalala” arguments fail to realize is that without investigation, without thought, without context, you’re not being materialist at all. You’re being an idealist lib at best and an absolute fucking asshole at worst.

          No investigation, no right to speak. So users like you should actually, legitimately, unironically shut the fuck up before you decide to crawl down someone’s throat when you perceive them as being wrong. Instead, ask why, ask what they mean. Investigate, like materialists should.

          You won’t though, you’re not here to listen, learn, or participate in community. You’re here to prove how right and smart you are. You and the users like you are by far the #1 problem with Hexbear, toxic “I’m right you’re wrong” posting with zero thought or investigation. Maybe someday we’ll find a way to cure the site of this sort of absolutely toxic libshit.

          Anyway, good post OP, I should go back to the local magic show near me because it’s hella fun, so thanks for reminding me.