For example, if I talk about “magic”, most of you will tell me I’m wrong without even asking me what I mean. You might even insult me.

How common is this? How much of this conversation is actual communication vs just a string of triggering phrases that we react to?

How much of Lemmy is people just barking at their own echo?

  • JustSo [she/her, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    26·
    2 天前

    You didn’t want to engage unless it was with people who agreed with you. You also wanted to filter the conversation to only people who believed in magic. When I, who met all three criteria for your post but who has moved past magicope replied with a very standard materialist position, you replied with a pithy comment like this post and dipped out firing a “I GUESS YOU DONT WANT TO DISCUSS” over your shoulder as you left. Grow up.

    jagoff

  • SexUnderSocialism [she/her]@hexbear.netMEnglish
    15·
    2 天前

    If you’re going to accuse people of not taking you seriously because you feel that they’re not agreeing with you on the concept of magic, and then go on to dismiss them when they ask you to clarify, then you shouldn’t expect a fruitful discussion to take place. I fail to see the point of this when you’re not giving people anything to engage with.

  • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    29·
    2 天前

    Magic isn’t real is the default, if you’re going to come into a Marxist materialism based area of the internet how can you be so shocked people are like what no magic is bullshit there’s no basis for it in material reality

    Are you really surprised with how that thread went?

    And yeah, that’s what most of the internet is, people are anonymous and here to entertain themselves for the most part it’s very common for people to not be the most considerate.

    Whats the real point of this post? I’m pretty sure you knew all that already, is this just a subtweet?

  • The_Grinch [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    19·
    2 天前

    It’s hard to conceive of anything you would likely mean by “magic” that would result in a productive conversation. The fact you don’t want to elaborate when asked leads me to believe we probably happen to be correct to have that reaction in this case.

    • The_Grinch [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      22·
      2 天前

      Looking at your post that started this, multiple people were asking you what you meant by it, and being perfectly patient with you.

      To quote purpleworm from that thread “Calling something natural “magic” with no further context to explain that it’s a metaphor is obscurantist.”

      • The_Grinch [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        18·
        2 天前

        Yeah? This is a materialist space. If you say something that isn’t materialist you’re going to have that pointed out to you and asked to take it elsewhere. Magic is by definition that which is not materialist.

        How much effort are we expected to put in to try to understand someone who clearly doesn’t want to be understood?

        • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          8·
          2 天前

          I love how you’re talking about materialist thought like you’re applying that here. You aren’t. Materialism requires investigation. It requires context. You don’t have any of that in this instance because you didn’t try to ask.

          Sure, let’s take magic, because I think that’s a fun one and I’ve had some interesting conversations with folks with different cultural contexts for “magic” in my life. In the white western “Harry Potter” context, magic is bullshit. Wizards can’t go around and set fire with magic sticks and summon magic owls or whatever. Great, nobody is arguing that. Probably. If they are, it would be an interesting discussion although probably not a very serious one. Would love to have that conversation though regardless.

          Turns out though there are many, many other historical and cultural contexts for “magic”. Those absolutely could be less bullshit. And in those contexts they are less bullshit. Some medicine are called magic or have a strong basis in “magic”. Some therapeutic practices are called magic or have a strong basis in “magic.” Even within the white western cultural context there is an entire form of theater that is called “magic” and I can assure you that, as a form of art, theater, and entertainment, “magic” is very real. If you disagree with that then you may as well go to your local art gallery and point out how none of the paintings are real either. Ceci n’est pas une pipe indeed.

          But you don’t know any of that, you said yourself it is “hard to conceive” any of this. It’s hard for your to concieve because you have absolutely zero interest in knowing. You didn’t ask. You decided with literally zero investigation that you were automatically correct, and chose to fight about it because how dare someone say something “wrong” on the internet. You saw one thing exactly one way, did zero thought past that, and attacked. You had a chance to learn something, to grow and expand your knowledge of the world we live in, to find connection with others in a community you’re choosing to participate in, to find common ground…and you chose to fight instead. For absolutely no fucking reason.

          What you and many users who jump automatically to bad faith “I’m right you’re wrong lalalala” arguments fail to realize is that without investigation, without thought, without context, you’re not being materialist at all. You’re being an idealist lib at best and an absolute fucking asshole at worst.

          No investigation, no right to speak. So users like you should actually, legitimately, unironically shut the fuck up before you decide to crawl down someone’s throat when you perceive them as being wrong. Instead, ask why, ask what they mean. Investigate, like materialists should.

          You won’t though, you’re not here to listen, learn, or participate in community. You’re here to prove how right and smart you are. You and the users like you are by far the #1 problem with Hexbear, toxic “I’m right you’re wrong” posting with zero thought or investigation. Maybe someday we’ll find a way to cure the site of this sort of absolutely toxic libshit.

          Anyway, good post OP, I should go back to the local magic show near me because it’s hella fun, so thanks for reminding me.

    • fluffy8192 [undecided, undecided]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      3·
      2 天前

      How about “In my experience with psychedelics and meditation I have encountered a mechanic, a way of addressing reality, that, for lack of a better term, I shall refer to as magic”?

      Does that float your boat?

      That dead mundane point clarified, can we get back to the point of my post?

      • The_Grinch [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        14·
        2 天前

        Does that float your boat?

        No, not really. You haven’t actually told me anything more about what “magic” means to you. From my perspective I’m addressing the crux of your point, because if what I suspect is going on is true, you don’t actually have one. Regardless, I’m not diverting from your point if you ignore me, which you’re perfectly free to do.

        • fluffy8192 [undecided, undecided]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          2·
          2 天前

          Well that’s where actual experience comes in. With the psychedelics, the meditation and noticing the thing. And if you haven’t delved there and noticed the thing, then you haven’t. End of that conversation.

          So how about the point in my OP? You got anything to day about that?

  • Amnesigenic@lemmy.mlEnglish
    9·
    2 天前

    You’re beginning with an assumption about the majority of people here based on absolutely nothing, I’m inclined to insult you for that alone. You’re also talking about a word with several extremely different definitions and not clearly explaining which one you mean, which is a common bad-faith rhetorical strategy and will make anyone familiar with it suspect you’re being deliberately evasive and dishonest. The non-supernatural definitions of “magic” are generally accepted and will not provoke a strong negative response from most people, if you meant one of those you’d have no obvious motive to be evasive about it. The obvious conclusion is that you’re being evasive about it because you do mean supernatural magic in a literal sense, in which case yes you are verifiably completely wrong. This has nothing to do with “triggering phrases” or how much or little anyone else cares, the problem is you.

    • fluffy8192 [undecided, undecided]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      1·
      2 天前

      Damn good point. But, we’re taking about purely linguistic communication.

      When you read a word, the meaning associated with it comes from you. Yes there is meaning in the arrangement of the words, but the meaning of the words, from which, oh…98% of the meaning of a text is derived, comes from YOU.

      So that’s like 98% you talking to your own echo.

      So that’s quite different from more IRL type communication (where you have all this other nonsymbolic context and stuff)

      That’s all I’ve got offhand.

      And when you’ve got a million people doing that echo-talking, well, what’s that?