If anyone’s curious, it looks like you “hold the brake and swipe up” on a touchscreen area to go in drive, and “hold the brake and swipe down” to go into reverse.
So yeah, it’s not a physical shifter, though it seems pretty intuitive and simple. BUT if you’re in reverse and try to swipe up to drive(like you’d do during a 3 point turn) , you have no feedback aside from looking at the screen to let you know it actually registered your shift.
IMO this is another idiotic implementation at going cheap on physical controls or “being high tech fancy” that shouldn’t exist. It’s dumb to not have important functions give physical feedback while driving. I’m not laying most of the blame on tesla for this. It still sounds like she’s the one who really screwed herself, but I’d all but guarantee there’s going to be a lawsuit for this one, and rightly so. Fuck all this touch control crap in cars. It’s lousy enough just on the radios.
Don’t forget the fancy electric door handles that stop working when you back into a pond.
There are emergency override handles, but not everyone knows where they are or how to use them, so they’re not all that useful in an emergency.
These deadly features are purely cosmetic, so I would lay a decent amount of blame is on tesla
Stupid cosmetic designs have been an issue for a long time. There was a theater fire in Chicago in the early 1900’s where a bunch of people died because they couldn’t figure out how to use the fancy door handles while panicking and being crushed by everyone trying to get out. That’s the reason why exit doors on buildings with a high occupancy are now required to swing out, and have those pushbar locks that allow the door to open even if you’re just falling on it.
If it’s possible that someone will need to use something while panicking, it needs to be as simple, intuitive, and failproof as possible
Wanted to chime in and clarify, the major issue there is you cannot operate a door handle in a crush, no matter how much of your senses you have. Can’t use a door handle if you can’t use your arms. Am drunk on the internet and hope this isn’t interpreted as a hostile reply.
But isn’t the point of crash bar locks that just the act of being crushed against the door will force it open? The only thing you have to do to open it is push on it or be pushed into it. Of course that won’t help you when you fall as the door swings open and get trampled, but it’s better than everyone burning to death.
Absolutely.
If it’s possible
It’s always “possible”. In fact, it’s inevitable that an accident or emergency will happen. They happen every day. It’s clearly Tesla’s fault for having terrible controls but what else is new?
That’s why we have dedicated first responders instead of just fire hoses everywhere. Many fires can be stopped with just some baking soda or a wet towel, but non-professionals can’t be trusted to act rationally in that situation.
I’d hope that this would institute federal rules for vehicle egress and drive controls. Even if it’s only because a Richie died.
Jeep was forced to recall their confusing shifters after one crushed that actor in his driveway.
But I can also see Elon being a fucking snowflake about it and trying to whine his way out of spending any inflated investor money fixing this problem.
… and have those pushbar locks that allow the door to open even if you’re just falling on it.
Crash bars
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He’s gotta do time at his neuralink first
It wasn’t that they didn’t know how to use the door handles. It was that the doors opened inward.
There were also ornamental doors that were an issue, but those weren’t actually doors, so it wasn’t that the victims couldn’t figure out how to use the handles, it’s that the “doors” weren’t really doors. They were walls.
If I had my way, regulations would require a physical connection for all door handles, and not just that a secondary physical release be available. I don’t know how you would go about finding injuries associated with each design as a layperson, but I bet there’s a death or two associated with each novel design.
An old man roasted in his Cadillac XLR because the battery was dead and he didn’t know where the secondary release was. I think it’s under the seat on that car. I don’t care how cool that electronic door release was, or if the old man was negligent in not knowing his exits; it wasn’t worth his life.
And let’s not forget that there are people who have flexibility issues that can’t reach under their seat in an emergency.
Or might have gained injuries during the accident preventing them from reaching.
This is why I liked driving the newer Army vehicles or well cared for Humvees. Everything was labeled. Anything important to not hit accidentally had a safety cover. And anything not obvious like an out of sight fire extinguisher has a high visibility sign pointing to it from your normal field of view.
Fuck fashion, give me cars that are comfortable and safe.
I love how they made the emergency door release a multi step process, which on some models recommended a flat head screwdriver or in others only is for the front doors.
A flat-head screwdriver for an emergency door O_o
How do these cars pass regulations?
When you regulate yourself, it’s easy to pass
The only regulations we have is that we’re not allowed to implement European safety features.
An exaggeration, but damn does it feel that way.
This would be at least the second time this “feature” has been tied to dying horribly.
The front driver and passenger emergency handles are so intuitively placed that every Tesla owner has to warn all their passengers not to use them.
The back is another story entirely if they even have them, but the front are fine.
Edit: I will grant people might forget after not using them for years in a moment of panic. But they know.
These deadly features are purely cosmetic
No, electronic door handles are not cosmetic, they save a lot more lives than than they kill by people drowning or burning alive in their car because they are too stupid to read their cars manual.
Since you apparently do not know this, the purpose of electronic door handles is for the car to be able to lock you out from opening the door if there is a car or bicycle approaching from behind in your blind spot. That’s why you only see them in cars with blind spot radars
That being said, Teslas design is still terrible. In Audis the electronic door handle doubles up as the mechanical emergency door handle, you just need to pull on it harder than normal and it will engage the manual mechanism
they save a lot more lives than than they kill
Do they? Can you provide any examples?
the purpose of electronic door handles is for the car to be able to lock you out from opening the door if there is a car or bicycle approaching from behind in your blind spot.
Seems like they created a lot of unnecessary risk to alleviate a relatively minor problem.
So it needs to fail open then. Without a charge it should fail into a position it can be opened or actually open itself.
This is not a new issue. Failure engineering has been around for a long time.
Bro, you dont need electronc door-handles to have electronic locks,
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I do have to find these but ….
- you don’t need the mechanical backup if you open the door immediately
- mechanical backup can’t help with unequal pressure while you’re sinking
- who the heck would think of that while underwater in a car full of water?
IMO, the real answers are:
- Train people to open windows when they go into the water and expect to swim out. There ought to be power long enough to do this
- Make sure there is a window breaker securely mounted someplace obvious
I don’t know if I’d do any better in a panic, but I really ought to get window breakers for all my family’s cars
I thought you couldn’t open normal doors underwater anyway due to water pressure so the recommendation is to kick out your windshield. Do newer cars have doors that open more easily underwater?
Anton Yelchin was also done in by a not too dissimilar feature. The gear shift of his vehicle returned to a “neutral position” after shifting so unless you looked at the letter indicator you may not realize what gear you’re in.
I have the same annoyance with my prius. It’s a physical shifter you move, but it electronically shifts and the shifter always goes back to the same spot. If I try shifting in a hurry it won’t register every so often.
That’s however not a good comparison because you still have a physical “way” of feeling where you are shifting to. I never had an issue with shifters that return to neutral, even in very high stress situations.
Touch controls are however a very different thing, because you have absolutely no indication if you actually shifted or not.
In fact, Ive had various cars now with return to neutral shifters - the new Mazda CX-60/70/80/90 don’t have this and I happend to shift in neutral, simply resting my hand on the shifter…
My prius is like this and every once in a while if I let of the brake a touch to soon while I shift it won’t register going from drive to reverse, or the other way around. It’s annoying, but something I’m aware of. Something that never happens with a physical shifter.
I’m curious. In what situations do shifters need to return to neutral? Like, at a stop? Or when you open the door? Why neutral and not park, for example? Or is park also neutral in EV lingo?
“Return to neutral” does not mean neutral gear in this context. If you shift an old Prius into Drive, the shifter knob snaps back to the center of the jig, which is a neutral position for it to be in. It doesn’t stay in the Drive slot while the car is in Drive. You can probably find photos or videos of this out there somewhere.
Edit: I understand it better. Thanks. Yeah, I think that can be annoying too. You have to pay attention to the knob in order to know which gear you are in, and when it lands where you want it to land. I guess new drivers would be more comfortable with that.
Thanks for the explanation!
Thanks, but that doesn’t sound like the OP is describing, though. You’re saying that in the old Prius, you put the car in Drive and it will stay in Drive. Whereas OP seems to be implying that they put it in Drive, and then the car switched to Neutral (not Drive anymore.) Otherwise, why would anyone be annoyed by that?
That is the worst idea ever. When I drove a snow plow I would shift from forward to reverse and back hundreds of times a storm. Without taking my eyes off my surroundings.
But bro, you’ll save like $0.87 per car by not including a physical gearshifter. Won’t anyone think of the poor shareholders footing that bill.
It’s simple but it’s not easy, because it’s complex.
If there’s anything we’ve learned in human history of engineering and design it’s that complexity kills when relying on human nature to control.
Swiping up to drive is the same direction as tap up to reverse from a previous model Tesla. Kind of like how trackpads and mouse scroll wheels work in opposite directions. I can see how it’s not so intuitive if the direction contradicts 35 years of muscle memory.
Even a button shift. Literally just a row of buttons, select your gear by pressing it. Reverse would be under a safety cover so you don’t hit it at 60mph.
Or, you just have logic in the car’s software that stops you from shifting to reverse over 5mph.
Don’t trust software. Just don’t. Software crashes planes. There’s no way car companies are programming better than plane companies. You can certainly have the feature, but a safety cover should also exist in such a configuration. There’s no reason, except shareholder primacy, to not include it.
How’s that any different?
- My current Tesla has a stalk to click up/down to go into reverse/drive, but I always verify before taking my foot off the brake
- my Subaru had a physical shifter on the console to move forward or back to a specific selection , but I always verified by taking my foot off the brake
- I used to have a Pontiac with a shifter stalk on the steering wheel that I move to a specific selection, but I always verified before taking my foot off the brake
There’s over 300 people here who seem to agree with me. Then there’s you.
I find it hard to talk badly of anyone who had just died, whether or not they were related to Mitch McConnell. That was a horrible way to go.
But, if it turns out the Tesla design was at fault, then we may be watching one of the few families who have enough resources to challenge Elon Musk get medieval on his ass. Which would be fun to watch, even if did take a tragedy to start all off.
Their family is not a “loving family” that normal people would imagine. These are conservatives who lack the capacity for empathy and do not feel kindness or love for one another. Their relationships are transactional.
If they sue, it will only be because they see an opportunity for profit. Not because they want to prevent this from happening to anyone else.
I disagree, it’s important to note that Conservatives love their families, too. They are not inhuman.
And their love of their family can, for some, feed into their racism. Their families are successful and they may attribute that to genetics. People with inferior genetics can’t really help themselves, can they? They need a ruling class to make the important decisions for them.
You’re right though, if they sue it won’t be to prevent this from happening to anyone else. It will be for revenge and punishment. Profit is a side motive here. They might pour an excessive amount into any lawsuit just for revenge.
That paragraph about genetics and needing a ruling class because the poor can’t help themselves feels so wrong, immoral and like a completely degenerate thing to say that I am tempted to turn the argument around and say that these people need help. Who in there right mind would, seriously, consider something that’s not even the closest thing to being backed by science and logic.
Who in there right mind would, seriously, consider something that’s not even the closest thing to being backed by science and logic.
They’re not interested in science, logic, or anything that goes against their pre-concieved world view, though. They are right because they have the courage of their convictions, and if there are facts or logic that get in the way, well the facts and logic must be wrong!
That’s how we get to almost half the country believing in “alternative facts”, which makes governing this country so hard.
My family and most people I know are poor, and this is also how they function. Even the “side” pieces.
If it’s about money for them, they may see a payday incoming. At the very least, the insurance company that had a life insurance policy out on her might have a thing or two to say to Muskrat. I cannot imagine how much money they are going to be paying out.
I’m really torn between hoping the lawsuit payout is very high vs. not wanting the McConnell crime family to become even richer.
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The level of glee here over a death is kind of appalling. Yeah, she was a billionaire, so was Steve Jobs. Related by marriage to Mitch does not make her responsible for Mitch’s garbage decisions. I’m sure she has family and friends who are devastated. I had not heard anything about her existence before this, but even if she’s a bad person she’s still a human and drowning is an awful way to die.
I came close to drowning as a kid and I don’t think it would be all that bad of a way to go.
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Top comment right here.
Aaaand it’s gone.
The mods on this community are pathetic. It wasn’t offensive in the least.
They’ve been getting worse lately.
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“After a Friday evening celebrating Lunar New Year with close friends, Chao decided to drive back to the main house on the ranch around 11:30 p.m., the Journal reported.”
I wonder if she had been drinking.
“According to the Journal’s account, Chao told her friend that she had put her car in reverse instead of drive — a mistake she had made before — leading her to back over an embankment and into the pond.”
Tesla removed the shift stalks from X and *S models in 2021 in favor of the car guessing which direction you want to go, with the option to override on the touchscreen.
Edit: Originally stated Y by mistake. Chao was driving an X when the incident occurred.
Tesla removed the shift stalks from X and Y models in 2021 in favor of the car guessing which direction you want to go, with the option to override on the touchscreen.
…what? What in the hell is going on at that place!? That is so fucking stupid and dangerous.
Hahahahahaha what the actual fuck for real.
Musk: “Trust my car, bro” Car: goes in reverse instead of forward
“We’re so confident in our self driving tech we removed the steering wheel”
Dont worry, there’s an emergency override in the trunk
Imma need that 10 minute James May video to show me how to get to it.
60% of the time, it works every time.
yea this is quite the absurd design decision.
Billionaire do without consequence. US nothing. Iz nao.
Give me the touchscreen gear shift. It’s not that hard, and I’d rather not have the extra physical object in the car.
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I’m already aware of where the manual door release is.
Tesla removed the shift stalks from X and *S models in 2021 in favor of the car guessing which direction you want to go, with the option to override on the touchscreen.
Holy shit, I thought you were joking but that’s real.
Tesla removed the shift stalks from X and Y models in 2021 in favor of the car guessing which direction you want to go,
Holy shit, I thought you were joking. How the hell did that pass any regulatory body?
It$ a my$tery i$nt it. Fortunately we all are subject to the rule of law in this cou . . . hahahahahaha nahhh just joshin’. The rich are above the law. Everyone else needs to resort to extreme violence, apparently. That is to say, I really don’t know what the DoJ is thinking.
What is the DoJ going to do about it? Any billionaire can simply appeal until the price of an RV or some fishing trips wins your case.
That would be Model S & X. Model 3 stalks are removed in 2023/2024 Highland refresh. Model 3 Performance hasn’t been highlanded yet so that one still has stalks. Model Y hasn’t released their refresh yet so all versions of Model Y have stalks.
You’re correct. I typed Y by mistake and have edited my post. Chao was driving an X when the incident occurred.
That’s crazy.
Whoever was in charge of U.S. transportation when that system got approved must feel like a real jerk right now.
Impossible. Conservatives don’t have the capacity for introspection.
You think they needed approval?
Hahahahahahahahhhaha
Yeah. Drive control systems are heavily regulated. Whether or not approval was granted after a review process is, well, unknown to me.
Of note, the secretary of transportation when this system gained approval was previously the secretary of labor under Bush and had bragged about record low OSHA violations under her tenure.
A later report found that this was achieved by OSHA not investigating violations.Whether it’s due to a lack of regulations or regulatory capture I’m pretty sure they needed as much approval as Boeing did for MCAS and Sachler for
Opiumpain killers.
Huh. It’s almost like the safety decisions of a major automobile company being at the whim of a petulant billionaire is a bad idea. Who knew.
Chao decided to drive back to the main house on the ranch around 11:30 p.m.
Ah the main house, yes. Of course. As one does.
DEBBIE: Can I ask you a question?
GRIM REAPER: What?
DEBBIE: How can we all have died at the same time? [silence]
GRIM REAPER: The Tesla!
GEOFFREY: Darling, you didn’t buy a Tesla, did you?
ANGELA: I’m most dreadfully embarrassed.
GRIM REAPER: Now the time has come. Follow. Follow me. [clunk] [bang bang bang bang bang]
GEOFFREY: Just… testing. Sorry.
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Lucky for them the ancient Egyptians can’t read English
Wow, he referenced her death in his retirement statement, but I just assumed it was age related because… well… look at them.
Always remember, if your car goes in the water, you CAN’T open your door until the pressure equalizes. You have pounds of water pushing against the door, keeping it closed.
Mythbusters went over this… Undo your seat belt and let the water IN. When there’s enough water inside, open the door.
Shortly after Mythbusters did that bit. They were directly credited with saving a trucker’s life. He crashed into a lake. His window didn’t work but he had a manual roof vent, which he was able to open to equalize the pressure. He said he would have never done that if he hadn’t seen the episode because of how scary it was to watch the water pour into his cab.
Spelling
Adam Savage has said that that was the most terrifying myth they’ve tested, and I’m pretty sure even with all of their divers and support crew he thought he was going to die.
I think part of it was the fact that they used an old smoker’s car. I remember him talking about the nicotine burning his eyes and all the smoke and nicotine clouded up the water making seeing anything even more difficult.
This is a Tesla right? Those door handles are electric, so you need to hope the cars electrics hold and not short. Or you can find the emergency release in the door pocket.
you can find the emergency release in the door pocket.
Not without some training first. They are inexplicably hidden. I imagine Elon laughing aloud when he reads of people drowning in Teslas, frantically trying to figure out how to escape.
I’ve heard they have some manual door latch backups? do you know if they’d be affected as well?
If the backups aren’t the door handles themselves, where are they located, and how many owners and passengers know about them?
They’re mechanical and hidden behind a panel
Perfect for the emergency situation where you would need them!
Luckily there’s reinforced windows that can’t easily be broken either. I wonder if the EU models are the same because I have a hard time believing that this isn’t breaking several safety regulations. This whole thing is such an ironic and frankly idiotic freak accident.
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Ah I was confusing the front and rear doors. From this video it looks like it’s in the door arm rests, while the rear door is burred in the rear door pocket under a flap. Both appear to operate the latch manually so no electricity required.
There’s no way kids will be able to get out of the car if their parent is unconscious in the front seat…
Stop saying it out loud. Elon can only get so hard.
They’re completely manual. There’s a manual door latch literally right below the button you’d press inside to open it.
Pull that up & the door unlatches to open.
They’re literally designed in for emergencies.
It’s the same in the model 3, Y, & S.
I just watched the video above. I’d say it’s a criminally bad design, because the emergency open is completely hidden from the casual observer and completely blending in with the other colors and shapes of the armrest. This makes it useless in an emergency.
There is a reason why Fire extinguishers, seatbelt release buttons, emergency exit signs, emergency brakes in trains etc. are all designed in bright, red stand-out colors with big letters on them.
Helicopter Egress Training they actually have you keep your seat belt(s) on until the cabin is filled with water, pressure equalized, AND door/window opened. The reason is, to push a door or window open you need a solid “foundation” and if you’re unstrapped floating in water you may only push your body away.
A road vehicle has a smaller cabin and more hand/foot holds, but I thought it worth mentioning.I think the reason they mention it is, in a car full of water, it would be an easy thing to forget, then if you get the door open, you panic because you still can’t get out.
Top gear also did this and their results were pretty much just get out of the car as soon as you know you’re going in the water.
Yes. There are three phases to going into the water. Getting out before pressure builds, waiting for pressure equalization or creating it, and getting out after pressure equalizes.
There’s a lot of situations where you will not have time to get the door open, like busting a turn rail and flying into the water. Obviously if you’re going in slowly and can’t stop it, (Like a slick boat ramp pulling a truck in.), just get out early.
Better yet, smash the front wind shield (after seatbelt is off or cut) to get out sooner
The windshield won’t break like that. Only the passenger windows would break and come apart
And sometimes (Tesla) not even the passenger windows.
Smash anything but a windshield. I’ve needed to violently remove a windshield when replacing it (time was running out and tool shops were closed). Wearing protective glasses and pushing with both legs is what it took to somewhat loosen it, but not immediately remove it. Windshields are a multilayer structure of plastic and glass. Side windows are just glass.
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Have some humanity. I fucking hate Mitch and the GOP as much as anyone, but this seems like nothing more than a tragic accident. The woman had a family and Im grieving their loss. This sucks all around.
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True, they were ready to send us all back to work at the start of the pandemic, no matter how many of us died or had family members killed.
As seen in Isreal and the pandemic response. $$$$ is worth more than the life of minions to them. Humanity is better off without that scum.
She’s a fucking billionaire that spends holidays with Mitch McConnell.
No one she knows gives a single fuck about you or anyone you know.
And they’re actively hurting millions of people without a second thought.
Don’t waste your pity on someone like this
To be fair, the plea was for humanity, not billionairity. At some point this person was an infant and we’d protect and care about her then.
Yes, the inequality is atrocious and her party is cruel and ruthless about expanding it, but therein lies the catch - we’re all gonna go some day. Right? Literally at the end of it we’re all the same in that regard. (cryogenicists and brain-in-a-computer people to the left)
So I think it’s a crazy and sad story, I feel bad for the human, but the larger metaphor is ok to be temporarily amused by, imho. Y’know the problem with the French Revolution was they got really into beheading people. Children, pets, etc. Like, way more than anyone should, “even though” etc. Because if we lose that humanity we’re worse off than we are now, right?
Anyway, don’t sweat the downvotes, humanity person. It’s just people being mad about billionaires, and who isn’t?
If you could push a button and get $1 million but a random person dies, would you push it? Billionaires are pushing that button all day every day, as many times as they possibly can
Exactly.
I would not push such a button.
I don’t think the kids who just miss their mom this morning are undeserving of my empathy no matter how much money the mom had. I can’t just turn off how I feel about this. I am sorry I made so many here angry though.
Fuck no, zero sympathy for billionaires.
Still , it’s not something I’d be comfortable laughing about.
Edit: Seeing vs not seeing federated downvotes on kbin is really night and day
Meme authors are sure to help you with that; sit tight, they usually roll out pretty quick!
Im grieving their loss
That’s seems odd for someone you don’t know or care about at all.
That’s what empathy is.
It’s an example of empathy but not what it is.
I don’t know why, but it’s easy for me to imagine a person out there just grieving the loss of their mom this morning, and in turn imagining how I might feel in their shoes. It feels bad, and my heart does go out to them.
I am sorry that I made so many people here angry, but I can’t turn off how I feel about it. i stand by it.
I don’t think anyone is angry towards you. You can put yourself in their shoes but grieving is a pretty personal experience, usually because it’s someone you knew.
Wow this thread is a straight condemnation of Lemmy’s high-horse. It’s wild that the comment above yours is neutralized on votes and yours is so far in the negative. What did you do that was so worthy of condemnation? Express concern for another human being’s family.
Of course, people here will tell you that billionaires discount lives on daily even while they discount the lives of the loved ones of this woman. Were all of them billionaires? Perhaps. Regardless of the size of their pockets we do know that they are human.
Folks that lean left generally understand what it’s like to be caught in the circumstances of your birth. It’s incredibly telling that this self-same group finds it so easy to dismiss the value of this human life and those around her.
You’re right to be concerned for the well-being of others, and I believe I’m right to be concerned about the company we’re keeping here. It’s seemingly a group of people that will dismiss the death of someone wealthy, even while they assume the wealthy will dismiss the death of the poor. I wouldn’t say it’s entirely incorrect even though it’s just as morally bankrupt.
Your empathy for unempathetic people is depressing. Stand up for yourself better.
I fail to see how not having a modicum of empathy for this person’s family after their horrific death qualifies as “standing up for myself,” but do feel free to explain this worldview in detail.
This person would have no second thought at you dying in this car. Or your family. Therefor you are defending and standing up for someone who would trash you. It’s just sad to watch from the outside is all.
This person would have no second thought at you dying in this car. Or your family.
Even if this were true, are we to assume the same of this woman’s grandchildren? Her distant family?
Regardless, I fail to see the need to laugh at a terrible death, and that is certainly not standing up for anyone’s moral compass but my own.The sad state of affairs here is how far you and others like you are removed from your humanity.
I don’t recall saying you should laugh. I recall saying you shouldn’t have empathy.
Empathy is not the opposite of standing up for yourself, though thinking so does explain a hell of a lot of leftist politics these days.
Depends on the context of the situation in my opinion but I understand where you are coming from. I’ve found if someone has no empathy for me. I should not return the favor to them as they’ve shown their hand. Does that make me spiteful? Probably. But I really love the quote. “Listen when someone tells you who they are”. As you can tell I’m callous and don’t have empathy for billionaires or ultra rich.
They didn’t say it was, that’s a logical fallacy.
Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me. I don’t want to be the kind of person that “turns off” empathy at will.
This is hilariously stupid, like genuinely ask yourself how Rage Against the Machine would feel about a billionaire dying.
Would you consider RATM an authority on how I should feel?
I mean, fuck billionaires in any sense that actually matters. They shouldn’t get to hoard wealth while real people can’t afford housing, medical care, etc. At the same time, I refuse to laugh at a human being drowning to death. Literally nobody deserves that. I’m also morally opposed to the death penalty.
Maybe I’m just not hardcore enough.
Would you consider RATM an authority on how I should feel?
You quoted them so, maybe?
Fair enough. It’s just my opinion. 💜
So much online discourse I’ve seen on here is just the same as Reddit. Stripping the humanity of people you don’t like. It’s just tribalist, cringey, and narcissistic.
Not really; did you grieve for people you heard of dying in the news the other day? Grieving isn’t just being sad for a brief moment then moving on with your day.
It’s okay. I realize lots of people are suffering and as a result tensions are high. I didn’t mean to make everyone so angry and I realize my initial comment of ‘have some humanity’ was to harsh. I’m sorry I made so many people angry with this.
I do feel bad for the people that loved this woman regardless of how much money she has. I don’t wish that pain on anyone.
You’re fine, this gets out of hand quick and I ended up feeling for someone that was getting pilloried in the snap-back.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply and have a great week.
Folks that lean left generally understand what it’s like to be caught in the circumstances of your birth. It’s incredibly telling that this self-same group finds it so easy to dismiss the value of this human life and those around her.
You seem to have attributed feelings of people here to one side or the other, how and why? Do you have a record of how each person leans politically?
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Tragic way to die. I wouldn’t wish this even on my worst enemies.
We all watch the videos of how to deal with this exact situation but in reality only a few people would be able to react accordingly to save themselves.
The article describes the area of water as a “pond” but the vehicle was fully submerged. Rescuers had trouble with rescue attempts due to the depth. Seems more like a lake to me.
"there is no technical difference between lakes and ponds, according to the National Park Service. While the distinction between lakes and ponds can be a bit blurry, there are some general guidelines. For example, if sunlight can reach the bottom of the entire body of water, it’s generally considered a pond, according to the National Park Service. Conversely, if the body of water is deep enough in some places that sunlight cannot penetrate it, it’s generally considered a lake.
When it comes to size, though, there are no exact guidelines. Ponds are generally smaller than lakes, but there’s no universal standard. That means some things we call a pond might be considered a lake by some. And some lakes may be more pond-like to some people."
https://www.reconnectwithnature.org/news-events/the-buzz/whats-the-difference-lake-vs-pond/
A few years back, a woman drove her car into a small retaining pond off a highway and 2 of the kids in the car drowned. Everyone was amazed that a car could be completely submerged in such a small pond. Those suckers are deep!
https://www.twincities.com/2013/11/28/st-louis-park-drowning-accident-spurs-questions-about-retention-ponds/But the sun shined on them while they drowned, so…
Actually there is a definition, from my old environmental engineering textbook:
A lake is any body of water deep enough to submerge a Tesla Model S
I appreciate this. I’m astounded by the callous lack of empathy of some of these other comments.
Being terminally online causes a huge distortion in one’s sense of empathy and justice
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What specific thing(s) do Gates and Buffett deserve being cruelly killed over?
No one’s suggesting cruelty (Okay probably some are, but). But you see what had happen was the planet is dying and 1% of the people have 45% of the money. So. Uh. There’s a . . . it’s . . . it’s a math thing. Of course, they could give away a few billion to the Education department or the National Parks service or the EPA or Food Pantries around the - well, world really. A billion is a fantastic amount of money such that we really don’t appreciate it.
Like, if someone were to count to one billion, allowing for 3 seconds per number (they get big, like, say, 295 million,111 thousand,433 dollars) it would take one ninety five years to count to one billion. And Gates is theoretically worth one hundred and forty six times ninety five years of counting. (Fine, that’s 13,870 years)
And yet they’re not doing anything with most of it. It just sits in a computer allowing them to buy governments and raze forests. Yes, yes, sometimes they give out free vaccines to some children which is a good thing. Kudos where due.
So TL;DR we’re angry about it. The system created by the rich continues to make us fear going broke and destroy the planet. There’s lots of people who know how to fix it, but they’ll never be heard. And here we are, taking some schadenfreude from an exploded mini sub or whatever. Yes, it’s true. Which group should be more ashamed.
You are thinking too much about this. No one deserves to be cruelly killed, especially not because of how much money they have. Them having money does not affect you directly. Don’t take it so personally. Don’t put those negative thoughts in your head.
I think it’s pretty clear that a billion dollars is too much money for one person to manage correctly. That’s why reasonable people like Warren Buffett are donating all their money to charity. Above $1 billion, people start buying giant yachts and relatively ugly houses that people will forget about in 20 years. Essentially, that money is wasted.
Buffett routinely talks about money as representing little “claim checks” on the productivity of American business. He clearly believes that he doesn’t deserve the majority of his wealth because it’s mostly an accident of fate, even though he has literally “earned it” by being one of the world’s best investors. If he didn’t have opportunity growing up, he says he would be an insurance actuary.
The real problem is that many billionaires are squandering the productivity of America on frivolous garbage. Small business loans or first time homebuyer loans would be a much better use of that money. Don’t ask for them to die, that just passes the torch to their kids who may waste even more money. Ask for higher corporate taxes.
but in reality only a few people would be able to react accordingly to save themselves.
It should frankly happen by design. Humans can’t be expected to let the water in while submerged, that takes will and under stress it’s hard to think.
Say, have pressure sensors outside which would open some small windows, I don’t know.
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Yeah I’m not one to defend billionaires, but this place is littered with pretty cruel and inhumane attitudes. Crazy how bold people can be behind a veil of anonymity. All sense of decency and emphathy simply gone.
I hardly approach that level of hated for the likes of Putin, Cheney, or Kissinger let alone some generalized billionaire strawman.
I mean, it’s sad she is dead. But billionaires shouldn’t exist. They have been stealing our time and money for so long.
Yeah I can agree with that. No billionaire should exist especially when we have terrible rates of homelessness, especially child homelessness, let alone myriad other metrics.
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Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!
You have neglected to note that the original comment violates rule 6 against celebrating death.
whoops. oh well. i’m not a mod, nor do i have any duty to be neutral. i’m just saying you shouldn’t break the rules.
There have been a lot of very obvious rule violations on this post
I’d rather their wealth just be redistributed, but I get the sentiment.
I don’t know why people are getting banned for saying this. i think everyone must die some day.
They should have used the Tesla Rock that broke the Tesla Trucks window
It was cold out, so she decided to take her Tesla Model X SUV for the four-minute drive rather than walk.
It says everything.
A four-minute drive is like a 20-minute walk. If it was really that cold, I may have done the same thing.
The way you portray it, “it says everything,” is not fair - and yes, I know we’re talking about a billionaire. Like, she deserved to die because she didn’t want to walk in the cold.
Her death shouldn’t have happened the way it did. And again, yes, I know she’s a billionaire, fuck billionaires, etc etc. But her mistake was her not being careful while driving, and potentially the car not being safe enough (e.g. doors jam-locked?)
It’s 100% Tesla’s fault. Mechanical way to open doors is not obvious and hidden, sometimes all together missing. And car relies on power to open the door, which runs out when submerged. Shit car with shit ideas. There’s a reason why windows easily shatter on cars and Musk and his cult followers seem to think getting out of car in case of emergency is less important than sounding cool.
I bet her car didn’t have a shifting stalk. New Model X makes you shift using the touchscreen. I knew that idea sounded unsafe but holy moly.
What?
Swiping up to drive is the same direction as tap up to reverse from a previous model Tesla. Kind of like how trackpads and mouse scroll wheels work in opposite directions. I can see how it’s not so intuitive if the direction contradicts 35 years of muscle memory.
The pressure of the water against the door would’ve prevented her from opening it regardless of the door’s mechanical features or power supply issues.
The windows not shattering is absolutely a Tesla design flaw, but there’s no way that woman was ever going to open a door from inside a submerged car.
True, but there’s some more.
Over here, ice roads are opened on typical winters on several smaller bays. The instruction to drivers is:
- don’t wear a seatbelt
- if ice breaks, open your door swiftly (get out first, then think about calling people)
- if you can’t open the door, lower your window swiftly
- if you can’t lower the window, break it (the side window, not the windshield - a windshield is multilayer laminate, too strong to break quickly)
Typically, if a car sinks on an ice road, people are likely to get out. A crank-operated window is handy in such a case. But regardless of instruction, sometimes folks do die. :(
In general, I would not like to experience any sort of extreme incident in an over-engineered car. I’d prefer something from the 1970-ties, but with airbags.
Pressure takes a while to build up and you generally can open the door before car sinks enough, it’s been tested. But even if you had to wait for car to fill with water, pressure would equalize then and you’d have no issues opening the door. Of course, you need to keep calm to use all of those tricks but car taking them away from you just increases risk of something like that happening.
Okay but a door that just works is going to be easier to get open before water pressure makes that impossible. Also, once there’s enough water in the car, a mechanical door will open just fine. At which point you swim for it in the opposite direction the car is moving.
That’s wouldn’t be a factor once the water entered the car. The pressure equalises if there water is on both side of the door.
Cold, in Texas? I mean, I’m sure it gets cold, but it’s not Canada and people go on 20min walks in the dead of winter with their dogs there. Awful way to die, no question.
Oh I understand. But it’s all about perspective.
Someone living in Siberia may say “cold in Canada? Silly geese.”
I come from a tropical climate in which people wear jackets when it’s 21 C (31 C being the average all year round.) In my mind, 21 degrees Celsius (about 68 F I think) was damn cold.
Of course, I now laugh about that.
But I won’t judge her for not wanting to be cold and using a maybe seemingly reasonable way to do that.
My first trip to Florida from Ohio I was on a tour at Kennedy Space Center. When I got there I noticed all the people in jackets, it was 65F, I was perplexed. Now the opposite is also true, I hate weather over 80F, too dang hot.
See that’s why living in Arizona is so much fun. There’s some park ranger in Death Valley but what’s the odds on running into them online?
Lol! That was funny :)
But anyway, Arizona can have cold snaps, right? Like 32 F at night in January? I know New Mexico and Texas do.
But that rarely happens at sea level in an actual tropical region, near the equator.
You should look at Northern Arizona. Southern Arizona is really hot and then Northern Arizona is high plains that can rival Canada for snow every few years. (Fun fact, when they were wondering where all the snow was for the Vancouver Olympics? It was in Arizona, we stole it fair and square!)
…I have places that are 5 minute drives from my house. Do you think I take 40 minute strolls each time I want to visit one?
Yes, if it’s cold, I will often make a 4-minute drive instead of walking 20 minutes from my guest house to my main house on my own property. It’s so relatable to most Americans!
You just want to bash billionaires, and I’ve already addressed that in my original comment. If you don’t want to understand my point, that’s on you. Stop with the strawman arguments.
Ooh, we got ourselves a mind reader, folks!
I agree with the sentiment that we shouldn’t be praising people’s deaths, but I want to point out the cold part
Texas Hill Country loosely covers an area around Fredricksburg Texas with San Antonio and Austin being just on the outskirts. Looking back at the weather reports, and not knowing the exact location, the temperature on 2/10 was a low of 45-65 degrees F. Considering the lows typically come in in the late hours of the night the more realistic temperature was somewhere between 50-75 degrees F.
Also, you can see the picture of the ranch in the article which also says it’s a 900 acre ranch. 900 acres is only 1.4 sq miles. It’s one thing to say a 4 min drive at 35 mph vs walking, but realistically it’s a lot slower speed and thus a lot shorter walk.
Point taken, but regardless, it still doesn’t merit some rando say “Driving instead of walking because it’s cold? It says everything - NO WONDER she died!!!” It’s a silly thing to conclude.
Absolutely agree
Always carry a glass breaker in your car within reach of the drivers seat
New Teslas have laminated glass, not tempered glass. It does not shatter.
So they’re death traps
Gotcha
I’ve just learned that laminated glass is now mandatory across all models since 2020.
After digging through the rule the NHTSA adopted, there’s nothing in there that mandates side glazed windows. The rule covers ejection mitigation. The summary hits the major point:
The agency anticipates that manufacturers will meet the standard by modifying existing side impact air bag curtains, and possibly supplementing them with advanced glazing. The curtains will be made larger so that they cover more of the window opening, made more robust to remain inflated longer, and made to deploy in both side impacts and in rollovers. In addition, after deployment the curtains will be tethered near the base of the vehicle’s pillars or otherwise designed to keep the impactor within the boundaries established by the performance test. This final rule adopts a phase-in of the new requirements, starting September 1, 2013.
There’s a lot of discussion in there. The document is over 300 pages. Some of it covers how the side windows can be down or could become deformed from a roll-over. For testing procedures the windows have to be pre-cracked or removed.
The Federal Registrar calls out side glazed windows in 49 CFR 571.226:
S1. Purpose and Scope. This standard establishes requirements for ejection mitigation systems to reduce the likelihood of complete and partial ejections of vehicle occupants through side windows during rollovers or side impact events.
and in 49 CFR 571.226 S4.2.1.1:
S4.2.1.1 No vehicle shall use movable glazing as the sole means of meeting the displacement limit of S4.2.1.
I anticipate that mid to higher end vehicles will have side glazed windows. While lower end vehicles will not.
Apparently it was because people’s arms (or even heads?) would hang out of the broken window when a car is rolling over at highway speeds.
If I remember the MythBusters episode your only other options are to roll down the windows immediately and then start to exit or wait for the car to completely submerge and hope the electronics that control your windows and doors haven’t failed.
I wonder how long the electronics last in the Tesla being submerged for the window to roll down.
My car’s headrests have a glass breaker tip at the bottom of the metal bars that you use to raise/lower them. I imagine this is standard in many modern-ish cars.
New Teslas have laminated glass, not tempered glass. It does not shatter.
WTF, how can they just make a change like that, and it get approved to be on the road?
Youtube comment,
Tesla that crashed into a pole, it was on fire, and the driver was trapped behind the laminated glass. Scary situation.
The first in crew that responded had a firefighter try to break the glass with a conventional window punch device, that didn’t work.
Then he tried smashing it with some forcible entry tools, that didn’t work either.
The driver ended up dying. It took 45 mins to extinguish the flames and 15 mins to get the car doors open.
I’ve just learned that laminated glass is now mandatory across all models since 2020.
Is laminated glass why my rented chevy bolt has so many pits? Car’s only got 7k miles on it, but when I drive toward the sun it’s like driving into a glitter storm.
I don’t know. But windshields have been laminated glass since forever.
Your previous comment stated it was 2020
Makes me think of the supposed bullet-proof cyber truck glass… Odds are much more likely you’ll be trying to escape your car than be under a hail of gunfire lol.
This is apparently a common thing across car manufacturers now.
Apparently not in door gap, trunk lid pours water into car, discharged battery can’t open rear passenger doors, Teslas.
There’s a door handle override but it’s kind of hidden. Terrible, terrible user experience.
death by own car is probably the pinnacle of poor UX.
But everyone that gets in my car for the first time manages to find it if I forget to tell them to press the button with the minus sign.
Those aren’t glass breakers, and you probably can’t shatter the glass with those. Car windows are incredibly strong.
https://carseatblog.com/38120/mythbusters-vehicle-headrests-are-meant-to-break-vehicle-windows/
Yeah, a fully closed car side window is extremely strong. However if you’re able to crack it just a bit it is far easier to break.
Yeah, but it’s way harder under water.
I punched a window and broke it back in the day, but that was a junk car from the 80s we were destroying. And I was outside of it with all the room in the world.
Trying to do it while seated inside would have been impossible, and underwater all that pressure against the other side spread out equally makes it really umpossible. It’s basically a giant cushion that absorbs and distributes the force. If you do break it, all that water pressure is going to push it straight in your face, and chances are you’re just going to let the water in, but not create a whole big enough to climb thru. Certainly not u til your car is full of water and pressure equalizes.
If you’re worried about this enough to carry a glass breaker, take a page from the Kia boys and make sure it’s ceramic. Even steel with a point is going to be difficult. But ceramic will shatter it with almost no effort. Gotta keep on bipping
New Teslas have shatter-proof laminated glass.
isn’t the point of breaking the door window under water to let water in, so you can open the car door once the pressure difference is equilibrated?
Also, I’ve just learned that laminated glass is now mandatory across all models since 2020. Glass breakers won’t save you.
And the world becomes ever so slightly more like Atlas Shrugged again
Oh no
Anyway, I’m going to Vegas later this week to get messy with my friends for my 40th. Anyone have any recommendations for places to hit?
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Ooh, good call. Too bad I’m not renting a car. How much do you think Uber will charge for the service?
Isn’t the tesla underground deathtrap in vegas?
It is!
Stromboli at 4 kegs.
Super sketch building and parking lot.
Red vinyl booths and decor not updated since Elvis was a teenager truck driver.
Bartenders who’ve seen the hard times.
Open 24/7
Drinking
Smoking
Gambling
High likelihood of hepatitis A, B, C and as of yet unknown variants
And the best fucking stromboli this side of the Gambino family
Also, your first stop out of the Vegas airport should always be for early morning drinks at the Double Down Saloon. I’ll let you figure out that that gem of a property on your own.
Why would you ever pay to drink in Vegas? Head immediately to the Rite Aid and get alcohol like everyone else. Or go to any sports betting section in a casino. Drinks are free.
I’m not entirely sure I said anything about paying for drinks in Vegas. I’ve never paid for a drink in either fine high class establishment I described.
“Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Except for herpes. That shit’ll come back with you.”
Check out Omega Mart at Area 15
Yep! Have tickets for that already. Very excited.
Golden Tiki is an excellent bar. That whole area has great food too.
And if you know anything about Meow Wolf, their third location is a short ride away. It’s called Omega Mart. It’s fine to go in drunk but it’s better to start sober and get drinks at their bar.
We have our meow wolf tickets! Plan is exactly to go in sober (maybe high already) and stop at the bar.
This is horrifying. A manual window breaking device that is part of the interior of the car should be standard by now. It wouldn’t be that difficult to design. This is not a Tesla exclusive problem.
I never actually thought about this, but you’re right. Wtf isn’t this a standard, and part of saftey scores?
For some cars you can remove the head rest and use the metal prongs, but it’s still probably not as good as an actual purpose built punch.
Doesn’t seem there’s a tool available for breaking laminated glass. Which is also terrifying but I do understand why the DOT mandated the switch.
In most cars I would say use the headrest, but my assumption on that the trasla.did something dumb to make those not useful either.
Imagine the crazy conspiracy shit if this was how Musk forced McConnell to retire by forcing her Tesla into the water, or some other crazy reason.
That’s some James Bond villain bullshit.
Putin forced Musk to force McConnell to retire and endorse Trump
Or Kennedy bullshit.
I dont approve of his billionaire-helping policy, but I do approve of his billionaire-killing policy!
