Populism Updates @PopulismUpdates Tell me your most radical position that cannot be placed on the left-right political spectrum
Admiral Snaccbar @Chris Mench Serving shrimp with the tail still on when it’s already mixed into something (pasta, rice, etc) is insane.
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When driving you are making things more dangerous and less efficient by waving people in. If it is your right of way take it.
Be predictable, not polite.
Almost got into an accident last night on this. Car 1 stopped at a 4way to my right, Car 2 opposite me stopped, then I stopped. Distinctly. Whole ass seconds between all stops. Me and 2 are waiting for 1 to go. It’s 11:00pm. I can’t say for sure, but I just KNOW Car 1 was waving his hands at us, who can’t see through his windshield because that’s how night time works. Way too much time passes, and me and 2 are like, fuck it and start going, then 1 flashes his brights and goes narrowly missing both of us. Was he just really wanting to be an a car accident? Is he drunk? Who knows, but half the accidents I’ve narrowly avoided involve a 4 way stop and an idiot.
Misunderstanding “right of way” is half the problem.
Right of way is ability to make a road, or the road itself by extension. You can’t have the right of way - it’s usually the government’s - and you can’t give it away. This is why wording is consistently who must yield the right of way, and not who has the right of way.
If it’s a driver’s turn to act, they are obligated to act. It’s not their option or right to act.
I’ve usually heard “right of way” used in terms of sense 3 of the dictionary. I’ve never heard it used to refer to the ability to make a road – that just makes me think you have a skilled construction crew on speed dial.
Dictionaries list common usage - even if incorrect. Look up the definition of right of way for your state or other government and I’m certain it will be the thing on which you travel or the right to create and manage it, not your “rights” while traveling on it.
I couldn’t find a list of all definitions by state but the three states I checked all use that.
It would be weird if they didn’t, since that’s been the term since before automobiles existed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_way
Am I out of touch? No, it’s the dictionaries that are wrong.
Looks like someone looked up their state definition and was annoyed at being wrong 😉
Indeed, in the boating world, the words are “stand-on” or “burdened” vessel, which makes it clear that the vessel that should continue its course has the obligation to do so under the collision regulations. The “give way” vessel should alter its course or intentions to “keep clear.” Nobody — nobody! — has the “right of way.”
There’s actually no legal definition for “right of way” in the UK. Despite it being a widely understood concept, if you go to court to defend yourself in a road traffic accident and your defence is “it was my right of way, your honour”, you could find yourself in trouble.
Weird. I found one in seconds on Google and it’s about whether you can use the way, not the rules governing turn order while driving.
https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-public-rights-of-way
Did you look it up before making that comment?
Ok. I was referring to the commonly known and understood “right of way” in regards to road traffic, I thought that was obvious but perhaps I could have made it clearer, but thanks for letting me know of the term in regards to access to land and public rights of way.
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Drivers that want to queue in single file when you should use all available lanes and then merge in turn at the front.
REEEEEEEEEE!!!
Edit: I really want to know the thoughts of the people that downvoted this lol
Simple, orderly zippering when a lane actually ends is the way. Wasting that useful pavement to create slower traffic and more traffic jam is insane and should be ticketed.
The most infuriating are the wannabe policeman that straddle both lanes to stop people passing.
Like, if you wanna sit in a queue for no reason then good for you, don’t stop people passing that have actually bothered to read the highway code.
Yeah. It isn’t about cheating, fairness, who got in a lane first. Isn’t territory to defend. We don’t have to enforce rules on each other. The traffic planners and road crews went through a bit of effort with like signs and cones and shit to tell us where they want us to merge. Zippering helps everyone go faster. Kinda why the planners want us to do it.
Got into that with my MIL once.
When confronted with the idea of leaving an emergency lane in a traffic jam, she also vehemently insisted she’d never done that.
That woman shouldn’t drive.
I didn’t even know this could be controversy…
I point this out to my kids on a regular basis. My oldest is 15 and about to get his license. I tell him that cars being polite are being dicks to those behind them.
Your quote is the exact quote I say to him.
I fucking hate this because it creates ambiguity, usually at times when things need to happen very quickly. It always seems to happen at busy intersections when I’ve got mere seconds to get through, usually a left hand turn. I’m waiting because I need to make the turn, there’s a person across from me going straight who will have the right of way and I can’t go til they go, but I’m looking back and forth waiting for an opening for when that person will go (and then me). The opening comes… and I wait… and they wait, and then I see this fucking person is looking at me like a jackass like they were doing me a favor. The favor would’ve been them following the goddamn right of way, then we both could’ve gone to where we needed to go, now I have to wait again.
In my city there is a very popular good samaritan trap on the main drag into town, and I am waiting for the day something nasty happens at that particular parking lot entrance, so then they maybe redesign that section of the street or something.
I first thought you were talking about waving to pedestrians to cross when you stop to let them go. Which (edit: stopping and waiting) is a correct and expected behaviour, afaik
Stopping for pedestrians at cross walks is correct, but you should never be waving at anyone to go.
When you wave at people to go they are less likely to check that the other lanes are safe for them to cross. You stop and look right at them so they know you see them and wait until they go on their own.
That was about what I meant, but thanks for expressing this, sorry I was vague.
That’s fine. That’s telling a pedestrian you have seen them and are obeying the rules of the road. That’s reasonable.
Yeah I’ve never understood if they expect me to just eat the tail, or start playing with my pasta with my hands to pull them off. Certainly not gonna waste like half my shrimp by just cutting the meat where the tail starts.
“Oh yes sure please make my comfort food more difficult to eat thanks”
I’m right there with you. Serving shrimp tail-on might as well be serving something on a log instead of a plate.
Ok… I’ve never seen on a log on a plate before.
Assert dominance by eating as per normal and when you encounter a tail, spit it at the chef.
Am I eating in the restaurant kitchen or walking back there each time I bite a tail?
I like each time for extra awkwardness
Oh trust me, I don’t need the extra awkwardness!
Chef: (Still holding towel after wiping 13 shrimp tail shells off his face) Back again?!
Me: (Awkwardly hovering in the doorway) Yeah sorry, I was going back and forth on this but I found a shell piece all by itself with no shrimp in it and while I have no reason to put it in my mouth I figured I needed to show conviction to impress my date so… PATOOIE
Save them all in your cheeks then blast them at the chef like Yoshi
My dad leaves the shell fully on as a stand-alone appetizer of grilled shrimp, so the shrimp is entirely covered in shell. It took until the third time my ex had dinner there for him to ask why the shrimp was so crunchy and for me to realize I’d forgotten to warn him.
Press the very start of the tail with your fork sideways so it’s cut, then pull the shrimp from the tail with the fork and knife.
Anyway, the post is right, it’s borderline violent insanity.
Yeah but that’s such a fiddly process. I’ve sprayed pasta and sauce all over the table because my knife or fork slipped trying to do surgery on my food
I don’t get when a fancy restaurant does it. If it’s not a Cajun boil or similar vibe, please don’t try to make me look polite deconstructing seafood.
Great! My fork slipped while trying to perform this insane feat of dexterity and my shrimp flew across the restaurant!
My cheat for getting the shrimp meat out is to pinch the tail. It just slides right out.
Putting anything inedible on a plate is insane.
If its on my plate in a restaurant, I will attempt to eat it.
I was on a school trip to a hotel, and was handed some dragon fruit. They didn’t tell me how to eat it, so I bit right into it. Took out a big chunk and wanting to try something new I kept chewing it.
The man had a look of what was a mix between horror and surprise on his face and told me to spit it out.
Not really a plate but I was handed something with inedible parts and no instructions. Similar I suppose?
Not sure if this is a thing everywhere, but a lot of bakeries around here will serve baked goods on a plate with a napkin under the baked goods. Not a big problem with things like croissants, but when cakes and stuff with sticky bottoms are served like this, it drives me insane. Both the purpose of the napkin and the plate has been defeated.
You can 100% eat the tails and I 100% do this
Do you mean the exoskeleton?
same i like the crunch! I’ll eat the whole shell!
Fun fact: The original purpose of parsley on a plate was that it was there for you to eat. Specifically there for you to eat at the end of a meal as a breath freshener.
People don’t eat parsley?
I love parsley. Who are the idiots leaving parsley on the plate?
Parsley is one of my favorite things.
And chimichurri is amazing
Skewers and other utensils are obviously OK. Some parts of natural foods can sometimes act like skewers or utensils, too, so that just becomes a normal part of the presentation and eating method. Like cocktail shrimp should still have the tails on, as a little handle.
Do it.
Lock eyes with the chef.
Don’t let them win.
I wouldn’t say insane but that’s defo against the rules for me. I often have chefs who want us to leave the bellybuttons on cherry tomatoes and I get this mildly niggling feeling because I read a few years ago that they’re poisonous.
They’re not. Trust me, my niece ate almost nothing except grape/cherry tomatoes for the first 4 years of her life, she’d never have made it. I’ve personally eaten whole cherry tomatoes more days than I haven’t in the last month and I feel great.
You now have me wondering if the killer tomatoes in Attack of the Killer Tomatoes are venomous.
I think they’re just heavy.
Can you direct me to any sort of source on that? I did a brief search, and I see some information about toxins found in tomato plants in general, (mostly stems, leaves, and green/unripe tomatoes), but nothing that specifically discusses a higher concentration in the “belly button” (I assume you mean the core/where the stem connects?) vs. the rest of the fruit.
Well like I say, I just read it somewhere a few years ago, and I’ve just had a brief search myself and found the same thing as you basically.
On cherry tomatoes they’re so tiny it doesn’t really matter. You can even eat the stems in larger tomatoes once in a while (though it tastes bad), the amount of solanine left is miniscule. On ripe tomatoes that is.
When I was a little kid, I ate one of those red peppers at a Chinese restaurant. I didn’t know that you were supposed to pick them out. This probably explains my love of spicy food.
You were supposed to not eat those? Well, I figured, I’m not obligated to eat everything if I want less spicy, but I never thought that those are decorative
As someone who eats the tail: This is fine. I like the cronch.
The only thing I don’t like is when they don’t remove the poop chute and there’s just a big-ass turd in the shrimp. 🤢
Yeah I eat the tail. I don’t see anything wrong.
That’s because you’re both insane.
In my case, I think it’s because when my siblings and I were kids, we only got to eat the tail because my parents wouldn’t get shrimp for us but for themselves and then not eat the tail which we would.
I mean, I am insane, but that’s not why.
I have no opinion on eating the tail of the shrimp with the rest of it. The concept of ordering or cooking shrimp, eating the flesh, and then giving someone else the tail is absolutely INSANE to me. It sounds like a bit from a sitcom.
It sounds like a bit from a sitcom.
My home life growing up was basically the same shit as Married With Children, but if Al had a better job.
…I didn’t even know eating the tail was an option. Like, it’s pure fucking chitin - there’s nothing to emulsify. It’s like trying to eat a fingernail, or piece of plastic.
Squeezing that last little nub of meat out of it, yeah, but the tail itself? Dafuq?
Or are we talking about that little nub of meat tucked away in the chitin hole? Just realized we might be calling two different things the ‘tail’.
No, the thread is about the crunchy bit. With cocktail shrimp I find it’s better to squeeze the meat out but when the shrimp is cooked and covered in sauce a lot of times I just find it less of a pain to get the meat out alone (especially if they leave the whole shell on after removing only the head and legs).
I didn’t use to eat the shell but after moving to Asia I ended up caring a lot less about whether I eat it or not. I also have other lazy/weird food opinions though-- like I’ll just eat the whole kiwi if im too lazy to go get a knife and spoon-- so maybe that plays into it as well
Gold kiwi skin is very edible, green is less so
…but still edible. I usually alternate between eating kiwi whole and with a spoon ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Are you sure the parental abuse isn’t why? Not even a little?
Damn.
You tell em, Ivanaafterall!
For various reasons, I’m calling the authorities… ALL of them.
So… Hey Lemmy… Does everybody wanna meet this dude?
Dude’s everywhere. We need to meet this dude.
Yeah I eat tail and I’m proud of it
It’s the occasional stabby thing that gets me, though.
Yup. That’s super gross. I totally agree.
But, probably not for the same reason.
Found… ! Oh…
found the vegan
Beat ya to it.
Clever
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Not only does pineapple belong on pizza, ham & pineapple pizza is the only pizza that is consistent in all three states: fresh and hot, cold, and reheated.
The reason why it’s good when reheated is the moisture in the pineapple. It keeps the dough from becoming a rock formation when reheating.
For non-pineapple pizza, adding a bowl of water into the microwave has the same effect.
That said, the argument is not whether pineapple is good on pizza or not, ofc it is, everything is good on pizza. But is it the best topping? No, that’s anchovies and capers (olives are good too).
I like pineapple and bacon pizza but you and I are not allies lol
The good thing about liking pizza that everyone finds disgusting is that you never have to share.
You’re absolutely right about that
I despise when people are food traditionalists. If we listened to them, we’d still be eating like British people.
I grew up in El Salvador listening to people insist that only beans, cheese and pork go in pupusas. Otherwise it’s a sin! Well the young people now make them with everything you can think of from shrimp to sweet potato and it’s incredible.
You don’t like pineapple on pizza don’t eat it
To add my personal opinion. New York/North American pizza is better than Italian pizza
Hmmm while I agree about Hawaiian pizza, I will say that cheese pizza shares the properties of consistency of all 3 states.
I also love some pineapple on pizza, but a plain cheese pizza is my favorite
Olives. Green, black or Kalamata.
You lost me at olives!
All of you are vile heretics.
So burn me at the stake, like you did to you taste (for pizza)
I don’t need to. The Italians will.
They’re welcome to try!
I’m gonna add more pineapple, my heresy cannot be stopped.
PINEAPPLE FOR THE PINEAPPLE GOD!
My wife eats the tail. She’s Japanese, that’s normal. I don’t though, so please no tails mixed in…
Hah, my Japanese wife has convinced me to eat them too. I eat about 50% of them now.
Alright, I’m off to search what nutrients shrimp tails have now.
Couldn’t find much. Most everything I found is that they are mostly chitin and they have fiber, omega 3’s, and no real break downs of nutritional facts. Lots of recommendations to just fry them, and one that said to save the tails/exoskeletons and put them in the freezer to turn into a stock. Lots of “just fry the whole thing”. I rarely eat shrimp, but maybe I’ll try the stock and then drain, season/cornstarch and fry the tails at some point to see if they can be made to taste like spicy shrimp chips?
This is an actual product with a different part of the shell, so yes you can. And its delicious.
https://pepper.ph/recipes/crispy-sinigang-shrimp-shells
Also, lookup “Shrimp cheeks” - its a snack you can buy. Pure shells.
Nice, thanks for the info
Possibly. I’ve eaten fried-brim-tail and it was pretty much like a seafood potato chip (just be careful of tiny bones). I could see getting down with some crunchy shrimp tails. Maybe my body is just craving some fiber (and/or fiber-like) sustenance, but I can see the merit. Hell, if it’s edible and tasty, then I’m 'bout it. Maybe it’s a texture thing?
I use them for stock a lot.
More power to ya! What about natto? She tried to get me to like it but I can’t tolerate the smell. I found it’s a very easy lunch for my 2 year old who loves it, though.
Mix in a little mustard and some tare sauce. I didn’t like it at first but the taste just seems earthy to me now. I also don’t really eat it with rice. Either in those fish sausage tube things or alone on a spoon (which also cuts down on the stringy trails you have to deal with).
Yeah, no, I don’t like the smell, taste, or texture. I have made natto for her in an instant pot, though. She said it came out okay but I still didn’t eat it!
Look up “spaghetti allo scoglio”, basically spaghetti with various shelfish (and other sea food). They leave all the shells on by design. They also bring a separate empty plate on the side to dump them in, and a wet (lemon) wipe to clean yourself after. Cleaning the molluscs from the shells it’s basically part of enjoying the plate. And it’s good!
I’m sure the dish is delicious. But when I go to a restaurant and I have to do work to eat to food, I always get annoyed. I’m paying for this meal so I don’t have to work, dammit.
I eat the tail too. Not because of cultural reasons, but because lazy AF and ain’t nobody got time to separate them.
Its also why I dont eat fish that isn’t deboned.
Ah, that logic sounds like you eat strawberries with the leaves still attached because you can’t be bothered to remove them, haha.
I just eat the whole plant. I can’t be bothered taking all the strawberries off one by one.
Accurate.
I also eat the tail, it has a nice crunch
What about shrimp tempura with the head, are you supposed to eat it?
so good to eat all of those
The head is good, I don’t think I’ve even attempted the tail
Hicks and Newt had to die in the beginning of Alien 3 in order for the film to thematically even be an Alien film.
At their heart, the films are about Ripley being alone, more in common with the titular alien than with her termporary allies. She’s an outsider in her crew. She’s a civilian among marines. She’s a woman among convicts. She’s lost her child, she’s lost 57 years of her life. The Alien is her only real touchstone now, and in a way that is very expressly shown in the films, that becomes a kind of “relationship” in itself. She’s closer to the alien than she is to the people who surround her.
If Hicks and Newt survived and were part of Alien 3, it takes that away and makes it an ensemble cast, which thematically doesn’t fit, and (I think) it’s one of the reasons that a lot of the new Alien films just don’t feel like Alien films; they’re missing that key thematic ingredient. Ripley is a tragic character, doomed to battle alone against the only thing she has left in her life.
Aliens also didn’t thematically fit with the first Alien. As the title indicates, there are many aliens not an alien that was alone. Burke was also a civilian, so Ripley was not the lone civilian. And at the end of the movie she was not alone unlike in the first one. Well I guess Jonesy made it out ok, so she wasn’t alone at the end of the first one either.
Aliens was not thematically consistent with the first one and that’s what made it great. There really isn’t a mystery about the Alien and how dangerous it is after the first one so trying to recreate it wouldn’t work. So instead of working class people being forced into a situation they didn’t understand and weren’t prepared for, we see a group of well armed soldiers going into a situation they were briefed on. This time the humans are going to kick ass! Except no, they get their asses to them. And themes about motherhood can be added (both for Ripley and the Aliens).
Alien 3 wasn’t entirely thematically consistent either. I do remember it exploring some themes about religion (it’s been a long time since I watched it tho) which is something the previous movies didn’t go into. Also Ripley dies at the end which inconsistent with the theme of survival.
To me story is more important than themes anyway. If Ripley has to be alone at the beginning of every movie it makes the story of her character really boring.
Alien was a horror film and Aliens was an action film.
I defend this position. Still, they should have given those characters better deaths.
they should have given those characters better deaths
That I absolutely agree with. They did 'em dirty with how they took them out.
Are Ripley and the alien in a situationship?
The Xenomorph has been the only constant in her life throughout the entire franchise. Everyone else is temporary. So basically…yes…in so much as a nemesis can be a situationship.
Lives.
I mean they made a baby together in Alien Resurrection…
Execute this man as an enemy of the state.
Every bathroom everywhere should have a bidet.
Is there a reason not to eat the tail? I normally eat it.
Yes officer, this comment right here.
This is a real thing people do. My wife is one of them. I tried it; it’s not as bad as you’d think, but I’d still rather not.
It’s like eating fingernails. 🤮
I like a crisp fried tail it’s baller, but in like pasta it’s just hard to eat for no real flavor or textural payoff
You can. There’s nothing wrong with it. I eat em too.
It’s more that why would you want to eat it?
Do you also eat the bones when you get other meats?
Do you eat the skin of bananas or oranges?
Vegetarian here so can’t answer for the meat and bones, but absolutely on the fruit and veggie front. Peels have a ton of nutrients, texture, and flavour
Bro you eat banana skins? Just biting into that shit like it’s an apple?
I do haha. I know it sounds gross to a lot of people, but once you get over the mental block of “only the fruit inside is food” that most of us are raised with, they’re actually quite tasty. You can dry them out and make a tasty snack too if you don’t want to raw dog them
He said they got nutrients. He didn’t say he eats em.
he said they got lots of flavor. he eats them.
I know lemon and orange peels have a lot of flavor because I’ll scrape a bit for “lemon zest” in some dishes. It however, does not mean I eat the peels.
No one is arguing whether peels have nutrients. Do you eat banana peels and citrus rinds? That seems highly unlikely as they’re not palatable.
yes on the citrus rinds. Also whole kiwis and apple cores
Yes, I do. That’s what I was saying I’m my comment above. And just because you perceive them as highly unpalatable, does not mean thst everyone else does too.
Depends on the shrimp and dish tbh
This is Korea. For whatever reason every single animal they consume that has unpleasant bits inside, they leave em in. Bony fish, bony chicken, grisly pork, soup full of shelled shellfish, and shrimp with tails. Hell, frequently entire shrimp head and all. Also locally where I live they have these different shrimp that have I dunno extra tough and sharp carapace. They don’t even try to shuck those things.
I’ve had similar experiences with SE Asian cuisine. They just don’t seem to have the same standards for butchering and meat preparation that we do in the West. Hell, I know of one SE Asian culture that doesn’t even have any sort of defined meat cuts. They just chop it all up into big chunks. Doesn’t matter what part of the animal it is, it’s getting chopped up into big bits.
It just takes longer to eat. Great at at Big party with lots of beer.
The Country of Waste Not, Want Not
Oh definitely. It wasn’t that long ago there were some pretty hard times here. The older generation remembers.
All of us who are old enough to have grown up around depression era survivors in the United States are familiar with that too.
My mom was born during the Great Depression and re-uses ziplock bags. On the other hand, she insists on brand-name everything instead of generics or store brands, so it’s not purely about frugality.
Yeah but name brands mean you buy it once and it doesn’t fail as often, is the argument for that I get from those of that generation.
And I mean I get it. Buy a cheap pair of shoes or a good pair and you will realize you will go through 3 of the cheap pairs at half price compared to buying 1 good pair.
Though less so with each passing year since name brands are designed to fail now too.
Yeah, I’m 30 and I feel like I’ve never had the experience of being able to rely on a name brand consistently. Everything seems to fall apart. Sometimes you get something great, but when it comes time to replace it and you buy the exact same thing from the exact same company it comes at a much lower quality
Its so fricking hard to find the trustworthy brands.
I’m honestly just so willing to not have any brand loyalty and to suffer with making a bad pick that I have to return or fix myself, I constantly having to re-find what is considered actually good quality.
The answer is a lot of name brand in the higher price range but not so high that it’s just for padding a contractor’s quote and percent take home is still good quality. And you can never go for the same model twice if the company is doing constant refreshes cause those are with cheaper components every time. (Allowance for first refresh fixing a flaw)
Ironically, it was about 30 years ago that brand names started really leaning into shrinkflation, and enshitification, riding off the merits of their previously good name.
My grandma is over 100 and still licks the plate clean after eating. Things like that get ingrained with you
제주닥새우? But they taste sooo good
마자
The taste is OK, but they will shred your mouth.
Blindly supporting the Two-Party System, and bullying those who don’t, is anti-American. It will only lead to fascism.
EDIT - @chaogomu provided quality information on how to actually work with US voting and how to make a difference. Arrow’s Impossibility Theorem and https://equal.vote
No one supports the two party system. We recognize it exists and work within it to change it. But it’s designed to not change, so it’s hard.
Stomping your feet and voting third party for president is performative at best, disingenuous at worst.
Local elections, vote third party if you want.
Is that bullying? I lost track of the line between facts and harassment.
Voting for and propping up bad politicians is support. You were doing great until you said, “Stomping your feet…”. That’s devaluation of a position you don’t agree with and defamation of the opinion haver all in one. It’s generally considered bullying. Just consider if everyone who shared your view voted third party instead of voting for a Republican in Democrats clothing?
Easy to be idealist when you never hold office. 3rd parties never have to show where they would comprise, because they are not running for these higher offices in a meaningful way.
The republican agenda is so profoundly awful, and the US electorate has not yet resoundly rejected it. Meanwhile, we’re too busy “trying to send a message” to recognize that the democrats are the only party even marginally open to progressive policies. Depending on where you live, there are a lot of groups pushing for election reform, and many places where that will be on the ballot. Get involved, help make that change happen…but you can do that and also flush the big orange turd.
How did I get dragged into this in a joke thread??
If you’re never given a seat at the table, then how can they talk about their compromises? I agree with a good portion of what you said. I wasn’t trying to fight people, but it did ask for “Radical Ideas” lol.
How can your third party ever have a seat at the table when they put all their resources and funding into national elections they can’t win?
I agree that only focusing on national elections is not good. A quick search will show that there are independent and third party representatives though, so while some candidates fall short, cough Jill Stein cough I would hope not all are discounted.
Yeah, it’d be great to see more 3rd party candidates in down ballot races. Should your first seat at the table nationally be the presidency?
It wouldn’t be the first seat. A quick search shows that there are independent and third-party representatives. I agree though.
It is literally to have a viable third party under First Past the Post. It boils down to Duverger’s law. Or more broadly Arrow’s Impossibility Theorem
We need to focus on the actual voting system before we can start generating and supporting Third Parties.
Specifically we need a cardinal voting system. It’s literally the only way to gain viable third parties that are not just extensions of the major two.
Sadly it’s too late to get voting reform on any more ballots this year.
But you can still get involved.
I know there is the Ranked Choice Voting concept which sounds appealing. I’ll read on this too. Thank you for the information!
Ranked Choice is an Ordinal voting system that fails Arrow’s Theorem.
In some rare cases, it can produce a result even worse than First Past the Post. There are a bunch of flaws in RCV, because it was invented before mathematical evaluation was as robust as it is these days.
Simulation, and some unfortunate real world examples, show that if you vote in and election with at least three somewhat viable candidates, and keep strategy in mind, you can rate your preferred candidate second and improve their chances of winning.
No voting system should be able to do this. RCV has more flaws in addition to this already game breaking one.
OK, Ill keep that in mind. I need to read more. Thank you for the education, I know it isn’t your responsibility.
No, that’s not how our system works.
In our system you never vote FOR anyone. You are always voting AGAINST the worst candidate. That is literally how it is set up. That is the definition of a two party system.
Voting against a worst candidate is not propping up that system. Because one of those candidates is going to win either way due to the electoral college.
If everyone, literally everyone, that was Democrat decided to vote Green, then they’d still lose. Again, electoral college. Nevermind the fact that getting everyone to do it is literally impossible.
What you described is also not how our system works. The Electoral College does what it pleases. See the elections from 2016, 2000, etc. I do agree that the EC is a major issue in this.
That too. Faithless electors are a train wreck waiting to happen. some states have laws thankfully, but not all, and that’s a huge issue.
Everyone should just ignore their actual incentives. Wow. What a wonderful solution to collective action problems; why didn’t anyone ever think of that before? Come on. I don’t believe you are that stupid.
They gave facts and you dismiss them with a label because of a little ridicule? Your ending suggestion doesn’t even do the job… we can grant you the impossible, sure all those people vote third party. Result, still a loss, and their least preferred major party wins. Whoops, all those voters we granted you picked different third parties. Because as little as they barely agreed on preferring one of the major parties, they agree on a ranking of the “third parties” even less. If you ask for us to grant the impossible, at least make it one that would work.
This is currently a multi-tiered 170,000,000 people system we are discussing. History and mathematics are against simplistic appeals for quick changes. Propose childish thinking, and it is little wonder you get ridiculed as acting childish.
Your post is a prime example. i didn’t dismiss what they said. I pointed out where I disagreed with their concept of support, pointed out what bullying is, and then asked a consideration. I don’t need you to agree with me. I just was asking for consideration of a concept. Your generalized dismissal is enough.
I presented a position on the topic. You ignored it in favor of discussing my comment’s tone.
As for the concept, I considered it decades ago. The math was the same then as now, and time has only added those decades of supporting evidence.
Ridicule of the ridiculous is warranted. And characterizing ignoring the reality of political systems as stomping one’s foot is the mildest of ridicule. It isn’t bullying. If you weren’t dismissing the facts in surewhynotlem’s comment, then I’m glad you accept them.
Your position was not ignored. You spent your first paragraph insulting me, that isn’t tone. I’m reading on the math you mentioned to better educate myself regardless of your “tone”.
Jesus, it’s always “bullying” when people get told the consequences of their choice. You don’t need to believe in politics, it will still fuck you over. A lot of people don’t have the luxury of not participating because they aren’t spoiled white suburbanites able to just hide from the consequences of ignoring how their country functions.
I think you missed the point of my comment. Detailing consequences is not the issue, losing the plot is. I’ll work on my delivery for the future. I agree with your overall statement though.
Do people blindly support it? I live with it and vote accordingly but I also advocate for alternative voting methods. People voting third party do not fully understand that our first past the post system makes it so their candidate has no chance.
The problem is that all voting systems have undesirable corner cases and anomalies. The voting system isn’t really the main problem, it’s the political culture, corruption and the inconsistent application of rule of law.
There is a difference between undesirable corner cases and the garbage that is first past the post. Changing it to even ranked choice increases engagement and how politicians politic. So changing the voting system does indeed help a whole host of problems. There are obviously some other things that need to change like having publicly funded elections, increasing the House of Representatives and having multi member districts, making the Electoral College obsolete, etc.
Yea my bad. Blindly wasn’t the right word to use.
Ross Perot came pretty close… 30 years ago lol
As far as I can tell the incrementalist argument goes like this:
- The two-party system is destroying the country.
- But one of the two parties will destroy democracy imminently, so we have to vote for the lesser evil this time, and then,
- …
- The two-party system is destroying the country.
- Resoundly reject the party that is actively pushing for a weird christofascist state. <-- the us electorate has not yet done this!
- Actively push for election reform <-- AK, AZ, CO, DC, ID, MT, NV, OR, and SD will all have ballet initiatives this November regarding election reform. VOTE!
- Get involved with organizations that are moving to further the causes you care about, and get active in politics.
Voting for president is the smallest part of civic participation, not the end-all-be-all
This is the future of US politics.
2024 - vote Democrat or the Republicans will end democracy.
2028 - vote Democrat or the Republicans will end democracy.
2032 - vote Democrat or the Republicans will end democracy.
2036 - vote Democrat or the Republicans will end democracy.
2040 - vote Democrat or the Republicans will end democracy.
And so on.
At some point, people will have to start voting third party because the two major parties will never give up the status quo.
The trick is to support ranked-choice voting in the meantime
And primaries are the “real” elections to get us there. General elections will continue to be major party A vs. major party B, with a “this is the most important election ever” backdrop, while primaries are where we have to try to get our important issues (like election reform) carried by generally electable candidates to get those issues injected into the parties.
And the amount of money spent on primaries confirms how influential they are capable of being.
And voting for Democrats or Republicans will accomplish that?
No not really, but you can do both. Ranked choice voting has already been enacted in several places in the US and they didn’t get there by electing third- party majorities
Given that the previous one actually did try to steal an election it actually has merit. I wasn’t worried about republicans before Trump. I just thought they were dicks.
We need work to end the two party system, NOT work that demonizes people for making rational choices under current circumstances.
the truth!
None of the doom and gloom really matters, every human in history has lived in a time of crisis. How we handle the challenges at hand determine the challenges for those that follow, but panicking about it is a waste of energy.
When someone does not like garlic bread, Allah Willing, they shall know no happiness, and shall not live long.
Videogames should go with inflation and get more expensive instead of trying to cramp in in-game purchases and deluxe editions and whatever.
I don’t want to own a “license” to a Game, I want to own the Game
Turning off Servers for goods you bought without offering a replacement should be illegal.
