I’ll go ahead and recommend HappyCow for anyone looking for plant-based options outside of their home community.
They have a map where people can suggest places that have vegetarian or vegan options but are mostly omnivorous, or full on vegetarian or vegan restaurants, cafes, grocery stores, food trucks, you name it. I think HappyCow the company also verifies the places people upload so it’s somewhat vetted.
I find that starting with HappyCow and then cross-referencing with Google Maps or OSM gives me the best results.
Lots of comments complaining about restaurants not being inclusive, but it’s unrealistic to expect others to bend to your needs.
I can’t go to a vegan joint and get upset when they don’t want to serve me a steak.
Nor can I het upset when a restaurant isn’t Halal.
If you want vegan, go to a place that sells vegan food.
Literally going to be flying to Paris today.
Good to know I guess lol.
I was backpacking Europe. I had just left Amsterdam and gotten to Berlin. I ordered a Heineken on impulse and the bartender looked appalled and said no.
This never happened. They would have given him a cup of black coffee and said " bro you’re in France now"
Based
For extremely busy restaurants / cafe’s where people are already waiting long periods, they probably don’t want to overcomplicate things too, and increase the risk . They’d have to keep 2 different milk frothing machines, and every time a customer got sick, risk getting sued, whilst slowing down the efficiency of orders.
Whilst it might increase the number of potential customers, in practice, it might only have negatives
If they don’t have oat milk, what should’ve they said?
In Italy, at “L’Isola della Pizza” in Rome, I asked the guy if I could get a pizza with salami, pepperoni, and sausage, and the guy was like “ah, American style!”
The French are right. When you have fabled cuisine, lauded all over the world as the gold standard… you get resistant to change. And rightfully so.
Putain, non, is indeed the proper response to said question.
The waiter probably was conveying it’s not on the menu or is out of stock. No big deal…
I’m a french vegetarian living in France after living 6 years in Scotland, France is years behind on the diet inclusion issue, I was shocked how difficult it was to find a place to eat out in Paris, way too many cafe/restaurant/etc… gets defensive and refuse to serve you if you don’t have the “historical diet” (whatever that means) of france, and a lot of them don’t offer any “common alternative diet” options on the menu. And it’s not better outside of Paris.
Then of course there are some great places that try to include everyone regardless of their diet, and they are increasing in numbers, but they are still the exception rather than the norm which is a shame.
If you ever goes in Paris and looking for a fully vegetarian classy restaurant, I recommand “Polichinelle”, it’s a bit on the expensive side (~50 euro/person), but it’s high level cuisine, and for a special occasion it’s really worth it.
Italy is just as bad with this kind of stuff, at least in my experience. I’m not even vegan or vegetarian, but I saw it happen a lot when I was there. They had the same kind of “historical diet” excuse, and I’m sitting here thinking “you fuckers didn’t even get tomatoes until the 16th century and now you’re acting like you invented them.”
I hate food purists so much.
Not many vegan options around, but one place in Sorrento made me the best vegan pizza I ever had when I asked (there was nothing vegan on the menu). No vegan cheese necessary, I think it was the crust and oil that made it. Got bored of the same tomato pasta item every night at the hotel though.
One of the most basic pizza, the marinara (tomato, oil, garlic, oregano) is technically vegan and any pizzeria worth its name will have it on the menu.
Interesting, thanks. The Sorrento place was a cafe so they didn’t specialise in pizza, but it sure was good. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a marinara pizza marked vegan here in Oz. They probably all use bulk garlic sauce bottles with milk as ingredient.
I’m guessing you’re not in Melbourne then, but Red Sparrow is a fully vegan pizza restaurant with a few locations there. Very good, from what I’ve heard.
Never been to Italy, but I expected it would be even worse over there, Italians are often very invested in their opinion about food😄 some of my Italian friends can spend the whole meal debating about what they are eating
All of Europe is highly anti veg. As it should be.
You’ll be hard-pressed to find a German restaurant without a good choice of vegetarian options and at least some vegan ones. Germany is about 2% vegan, 10% ovo-lacto-vegetarian, and 55% flexitarian. That’s 67% of the population having an active look at those choices and you’d be very out of place with “if there’s no meat it’s not food” comments. You just insulted a huge number of quite cherished traditional dishes.
Go on, go, go to Swabia and say that Käsespätzle are not food. I’m waiting. They’ll probably lock you into a madhouse.
Proof: just trust me bro.
Pasta too lol Cut it with the knife and you get to eat for free… until they kick you out
The French are actually quite conservative in many ways.
A French person decrying the lack of quality food in Paris in comparison to Scotland. British cuisine is truly amazing.
Haha, Indeed the irony is at its maximum. Although, I think haggis was pretty good (even the vegetarian version)
While I’m talking about it, have you guys seen the documentaries about wild haggis ? https://youtu.be/tvLXG4_SoO4
Food snobs might be one of my least favorite types of humans there are. The minute I hear/see someone start talking about how they would never eat that or whatever other bullshit, is almost like I’m hearing them start talking about the good things Trump is doing for everyone. Let’s never cross paths again, you’re insufferable.
In this thread, most of both the French and the vegans are insufferable. I like a nice strong black coffee and I don’t eat a lot of meat, but there’s a reason I don’t really want to go back to Paris or to half of the vegan restaurants I try.
I mean, it really depends on their delivery.
If they’re acting like it somehow un-stinks their shit, ok fuck off.
However, there are certain foods that everyone loves that I simply cannot stand. Cake, is a big one. I will actively seek against eating cake. It frequently leaves me feeling gross, especially on an empty stomach. I do not see it as good. I can understand someone speaking about food like that.
Either that, or oat milk isn’t on the menu and he didn’t have any.
I’m also referring to this thread.
Then that is a failure on the business. It is a very common request.
Seems like more a failure of you for not checking if they do oat milk. And they likely do lots of other types of vegan milk as alternatives
Honestly, the kind of person who gets pissy about this kind of thing, you’re probably better off not having in your restaurant or cafe anyway. Because they’ve probably got a list of food requirements
I have a friend with actual gluten intolerance, and she stopped telling restaurants about it specifically because otherwise they’d freak out. She’d just order things like minimal gluten and only ask if she wasn’t sure.
But she’d never ask for substitutions either
There is no way of knowing how busy this place is. They might be completely full and serving 10 different types of milk might simply slow things down and increase their risk if they accidentally mix the containers
It’s only a failure if they wanted to do that kind of business. If I open an Italian restaurant and someone orders Thai, did I fail?
“Do you have eggs? Yes. Do you have noodles? Yes. Do you have curry paste? Yes. Do you…”
~ worst customer you will ever meet
There is a difference between a restaurant of a specific cusine and plainly deniying acommodating for common dietary preferences. Be it for health or ethical reasons. I guess in most cuisines worldwide there are either plenty of suitable dishes already available or they should be at least easy to accomodate. But sometimes it seems it’s even too much of an ask to leave out some simple ingredients.
“Deny accommodating for common dietary preference”, how? Have your coffee black, there, completely lactose-free. If you ask for a latte, don’t be surprised when you get milk. If you don’t want milk, don’t order a latte. Do you know what “latte” translates to?
Sure. There is a scale where my example was an extreme for illustration. Your point a very reasonable one as well. If I was running a a cafe I would offer it but I am Canadian. If I were french and you asked for a baguette olive loaf you would find yourself in a guillotine. Context matters and traditions matter more than commerce in many cultures.
It’s not common at all.
“At all”?
In the year 2024, Oatly had annual revenue of $823.67M with 5.15% growth. Oatly had revenue of $214.32M in the quarter ending December 31, 2024, with 4.99% growth.
Oatly’s key markets are Sweden, Germany and the United Kingdom. The company’s products were available in 60,000 retail stores and 32,200 coffee shops around the world as of 31 December 2020.
Do you really think that Sweden, Germany and UK is all the world there is? I’ve got a surprise for you.
I get the sneaking suspicion you enjoy being contrarian for contradictions sake.
Yes. About 2/3rd of the worldwide population is lactose-intolerant. Hence, it is really common to ask for lactose-free products.
That’s a myth really. Lactose intolerant don’t drink lattes in the first place. But they might not be that intolerant in the first place
Most of the lactose-intolerant population isn’t asking for lattes for the simple reason that their cuisine doesn’t use dairy at all.
Also FWIW Italy is quite lactose-intolerant. It’s why you hear things like “no cappuccino after noon” and stuff, many Italians don’t vibe well with more than one of those things.
In Europe, dairy intolerance is actually extremely rare. It’s Asia where intolerance is common
You can’t use worldwide stats to represent a localised region
oats aren’t mamals, can’t see how he could possibly get milk from it.
Same for almonds and everything else.
I also don’t order cow juice.Lol what an original joke.
The word ‘milk’ in the English language has been used to describe plant-based milks for at least 800 years. Soy milk and Almond milk as beverages have been around for at least 1000 years.
You’re ahistorical proscriptive definition is just bullshit gatekeeping. You are wrong and should feel bad about yourself over it.
an opaque white fluid rich in fat and protein, secreted by female mammals for the nourishment of their young.
bullshit gatekeeping. You are wrong and should feel bad about yourself over it.
Jeez man how can you be so triggered and fanatic about something?
Touch some grassProscriptive definitions aren’t how language works, and never have been.
A word has multiple definitions.
In English (or French), milk can also describe a while liquid. There are six definitions for milk on Wiktionnary, and here is the second one:
(uncountable, by extension) A white (or whitish) liquid obtained from a vegetable source such as almonds, coconuts, oats, rice, or soy beans
There is also something called cement milk
A watery film of a dull white or gray color often appears on the surface. This white matter is the so-called cement milk.
I was walking under a decrepit elevated expressway and there were signs saying to be careful about cement milk dripping from the ceiling. I don’t think there’s any mammal involved in producing that type of milk.
“almond juice” has been called “almond milk” in the french language since middle age. That’s not the issue here. The guy probably order something that was not on the carte. That’s it. There is coffee shop than specialise in fancy and complicated coffee based beuvrage. In a regular café, you should check the menu before asking for your favorite drink for a shop at home.
How do you not have oat milk though, it’s the easiest dairy replacement for coffee.
No it is not. It is to you and your context. When it comes to plant-based milk, anything other than soja and almond is considered very exotic in France, most of people have never tried it. French people have coffee black or with cow milk. Lactose-free cow milk is part of everyday life and most of people don’t have milk in their coffee if they don’t want cow milk. As for latte, it is not a everyday drink but a treat and in many place people will not understand you are ordering a latté (litt: of milk) if you don’t even plan of having milk.
I see. I’ve heard that oat milk is so easy to make that I thought it must have spread everywhere.
I’ve made some at home and it is by far my favorite type of plant-based milk but it is definitively an exotic beverage to the average Frenchman who anyway only eats oat in muesli.
France doesn’t do new food stuff
Yes, I don’t see how you can be indignated about something so trivial you need to make a post about it.
Why do you think milk can only come from mammals?
That’s the definition of milk, so yes
It’s a definition, but hardly the only one.
I am not a vegan but oat milk lattes are the best lattes. They are creamy, rich with flavor that’s perfectly aligned w the coffee, lower in calories & more sustainable than classic dairy.
Everyone should try them once at least.
I just made a smoothie with a frozen berry blend I got from Costco. Yep, I used oatmilk
I don’t think this story/tweet is real. Or maybe just the misunderstanding that the restaurant didn’t have oat milk on hand.
Totally agreed that oat milk superior flavor for many different applications. Milk from a tiyty just ain’t it for smoothies and stuff. I don’t make any smoothies with animal milk.
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I like oatmilk in general. Oatmilkshakes are also awesome and oatmilk is way better in cereal
Too many people tried soy milk or almond milk and it has unfortunately turned them away from dairy alternatives. Oatmilk leagues above all the rest.
I also didn’t like soy milk at first now I have it with cereal almost daily, so I guess it’s also getting used to the flavour.
Soy milk slays on protein though. If that’s important to you.
Definitely. Though I do quite like chocolate almond milk! I find almond milk tk be a tolerable alternative some of the times but ugh soymilk
Oat milk things out frozen drinks but I agree it’s delicious all the same.
This is the real answer. The french aren’t the pretentious ones in this story, they’re the plebs who don’t know any better haha
(All in good fun)
No, they just have way better milk than us
Yes! The moment I tried oatmilk I realized the nuttiness of the oat compliments the coffee bean aromas making it the superior milk for espresso drinks
I must keeping getting crap oatmilk. I always feel like it’s watery, and I shake it before pouring.
I also drink whole milk, and think anything under 2% might as well be water. Unless it’s a chocolate milk full of thickeners instead of just milk and chocolate.
I also get plain, because I don’t want added sugar.
Suggestions?
Oaty brand oat milk.
They have some kind of special ingredient that keeps everything properly emulsified.
Warning it’s not cheap. I maybe buy a carton a week.
Forager Project has a nice oatmilk. I like it better than Oatly.
Oatly barista in the grey cartons is hands down the best IMO after trying loads of other brands. I get it at publix in the US or Tesco in the UK
.
But Oatly has shitty additives
You have to go for the stuff with added fat - barista style - to get anything approaching decent.
Just use whole milk.
I do.
But I have vegan and lactose intolerant family and friends. So I try to keep shelf stable options on hand for when they visit.
After they leave, I use what’s left so it’s not wasted, and would prefer an option that I like too.
Makes sense.
Maybe try cachew milk? It’s pretty tasty.
A lot of brands make extra creamy versions that work better in coffee imo. Some sell a barista version which is also extra creamy and designed to steam well for lattes. Theyre more calorie dense though, so you kinda lose one of the main benefits. My favorite milk for lattes is ultra-filtered whole milk.
Mighty is the best brand I’ve tried by a margin, they do a barista one but for an all round milk replacement the whole m.lk is great. They use a blend of oat and pea though I think
Starbucks gets watery oat milk I dunno
lower in calories
not everyone wants that.
Lowering the calories makes room to compensate with bacon grease.
Yeah but that makes my coffee taste funny.
The barista stuff isn’t that much lower in calories than dairy milk. The rest is true though: delicious, sustainable, microfoam-able.
Barista style oat milk is fantastic, froths so nicely.
I just bought one last week. Works well. Enjoyable but clearly different than whole milk.
Sticking to it for health.
For health reasons you might take it a step further one day, the unsweetened versions have a lot less fat and sugar in them. I got used to it after barista oat milk and now I prefer the more coffee-y taste of my coffee tbh
I agree. My preference goes oat then whole. I like the nuttiness that the oat milk adds. Local café was doing a monthly special, and they’re the best in the county so I tried it. It became my regular order.
Have you looked at the ingredients of oat milk?
It’s water with vegetable oil and just enough oats for the taste.
I’m lactose intolerant. What’s your point?
My point is, that oat milk lattes are not the “best” lattes, they’re oily not creamy, and that the flavor of oats does not align with coffee.
I’m diabetic and have to avoid lactose too, amongst many other things.
Oat milk might be a fine beverage, if you’re into oily watery horse food, but a substitute for proper milk it is not.
Milk is just watery fatty cow food with some extra steps involved.
Not really. It’s a mammalian excretion that has literally been refined over millions of years to deliver an infants nutritional requirements.
I drink milk, but milk isn’t superior to oat milk.
mammal milk has specific ingredients that are meant to specifically feed infants of that animal. So its often high in fat and has specific things that are meant to be digested by that animal. Breast milk from a human has special ingredients that help digest the high lactose content and those ingredients are not in other milks.
Now Oats have been designed over years to be digested by humans and other animals. They propagate by being consumed and then travel to other areas post consumption. The nutrition in oats and other vegetables is mostly there specifically to drive animals like us to eat them so that we propagate them.
Of course proper milk is superior to oat milk.
If you were stuck on a desert island and could have an infinite supply of either it would be an absurdity to choose the oat milk over cows milk.
It’s true that cows milk is intended for calves and it’s probably not advisable for an adult human to consume exclusively cows milk, but it’s an absurdity to claim that cows milk is less nutritionally valuable than oat milk.
Oats have been domesticated by humans over a few short millennia because of their ease of cultivation and longevity in storage. Lets not conflate convenience with nutritional quality. Besides which oat milk doesn’t contain much in the way of oats anyway.
As long as that infant happens to be a cow
You’re trying really hard to be objectively correct about this silliness. No wonder there’s a stigma about coffee snobs.
I’m not trying to be objectively correct at all.
It’s just really easy to make fun of people who drink poncy “milk” because everyone secretly wants it to be some magical elixir delicately squeezed from the nipples of plump little oats tended by fat little bumble bees in Tasmania.
I’m not trying to be objectively correct at all.
Literally you: “Of course proper milk is superior to oat milk.”
That’s very obviously a subjective statement.
Have you seen what they feed cows? Think I’ll stick with the oats and vegetable oil 😉
You mean grass?
You keep that ignorance as long as you can bud.
One of us sure is ignorant.
We don’t have feedlot dairy’s here.
You can literally go for a drive and watch dairy cows eat green grass.
They wrap hay bales in this plastic stuff that makes the hay start to ferment which apparently the cows fucking love to eat.
(Side note: that fermented hay is called Silage and fun fact it’s one of the single foulest smelling substances produced by humanity. Smells more like raw sewage than actual raw sewage, and frequently triggers asthma attacks. Cows, inexplicably, go absolutely ape for it. A silage farm near where I grew up had frequent breakins from nearby pastured cows who had figured out the latches so they could sneak in.)
The one I drink has 11%, which seems plenty. At some point it’d become thin porridge, and I don’t want to drink that.
The quality of oatmilk varies wildly based on the brand. I’m not a fan of Kirkland or Oatly but Califia and Silk are delicious.
Jesus. Oatly is by far the best. By far. Especially the barista style.
I also like it but it didn’t feel any healthier than regular milk, I don’t have the macros in mind anymore but I think half full milk was better when I did look it up a while ago.
Agree with this, regular but unsweetened has much less fat and sugar.
“I am not a vegan but”
HAHAAH, INSERT FUNNY THEY TELL YOU JOKE!!1!
