I touch grass for one full day and miss this thread? Oh well…
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Hey hey don’t start with excuses. Russian/CCP bots don’t need to touch grass!
Oof, you caught me! lol
Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?
Hell, go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.
While you’re at it, go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.
I’m sure it’ll resonate with all of them /s
Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?
I’ll tell you.
This shit was already happening. Yes, it’s taken another step under Trump, but the incrementalism occurred with Democratic fascists as well. What Trump is able to do now would be impossible if Democrats hadn’t seized on the illegal powers dreamed up by Clinton and Dubya and ran with them.
Clinton, while fucking his interns, invented ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’ and did nothing about persecution of gay people, and in fact, he was the one who signed DOMA. He invented “peacekeeping actions” so he could make war without calling it that, and he did just that. He cut the social safety net wholesale, making Americans poorer, and doubled down on poverty with his ‘free trade’ policies that helped usher in the era of companies moving offshore and killing US jobs. Oh, and he was a regular on Epstein’s island and the Lolita Express.
Obama let police run roughshod in Ferguson and New York City, brutalizing victims of police violence and people who lost their homes and decided to participate in Occupy. He appointed Tom Homan and put kids in cages. He made torture explicitly extra-legal. He walked into Flint and performatively drank a glass of water. He dropped 26,000 bombs in the last year of his presidency and left office with American wars brewing in seven countries. We also learned under Obama that police departments in the US have black sites and his presidency was
kidnappingrenditioning people to black sites in foreign countries. He also ordered drone bombings that killed American citizens.We knew Biden was going to be shit when, in a time people wanted federal police reform, he mocked the change people wanted in his State of the Union address by calling for greater police militarization, and his presidency gave rise to ‘cop cities’. Even worse, it’s now possible for cops to hang out in a school that’s getting shot up, on camera, with zero consequences. After January 6 he did nothing meaningful to slow the evident rise of domestic fascism, showing a greater interest in keeping his scumbag son out of prison. He deported undocumented immigrants by the millions and continued the policy of caging kids. Biden earned the moniker ‘Genocide Joe’ for aiding and abetting the genocide in Israel, even when Israel escalated it into a manufactured famine, which is a war crime. Then he ran for president knowing he had dementia, paving the way for Trump’s second term, prioritizing his own ego over the country’s well-being.
This isn’t a ‘Democrats are better’ scenario. Most people just haven’t really paid attention to what Democrats do or have the short-term memory of a goldfish.
And before you try to argue they were powerless, consider that all three of these men had the presidency and control of Congress, just like Trump. They had all the power they needed to make real change. They just didn’t care.
Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?
Obama Leaves Office As ‘Deporter-In-Chief’
Democrats tried so fucking hard to outflank the Republicans from the Right for eight long years. But as soon as they lost, its those damned leftists at fault for not voting harder.
Hell, go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.
I’ve got a trans friend who has more rotten things to say about Joe Biden than your eardrums can handle.
Hey hypocrite.
Want to tell all the deported and kids in cages under Genocide Joe how that was much better?
Or that bombing brown people everywhere in the world, droning weddings or aiding genocide of Palestinians is better bcs it’s under those Dems who have those famous ‘democratic values’ they’re always crying about?
Just say it like it is, libs only care about themselves.
You all didn’t give a fuck about what you did to the world since forever.
And you probably also don’t give a fuck about trans people either.
The problem is now the fascism you supported has come home, and the libs don’t like the taste of their own medicine.
That’s ALL that bothering you.Enjoy your karma, hope you get a lot of it.
wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?
Those neighborhoors will tell you that ICE had been around since 2002 and while happy you’re finally getting with the program, despite the current administration’s best attempts, 2012 was the worst year so far right after the democrats had their governmental trifecta and with the dreamers bait and switch.
So yes, while different flavors, they have been equally bad.
go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.
Republicans despise them, Democrats love to use them. That isn’t necessarily better.
go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.
Fucking yes, the big Epstein reveal is that it’s all of them. The Trumps and the Clinton’s.
It’s relieving to see common sense on the internet, have upvote. It’s very interesting how the uniparty seems to get majority vote every single election.
Those neighborhoors will tell you that ICE had been around since 2002 and while happy you’re finally getting with the program, despite the current administration’s best attempts, 2012 was the worst year so far right after the democrats had their governmental trifecta and with the dreamers bait and switch.
So yes, while different flavors, they have been equally bad.
You are fucking delusional to the extreme.
While ICE has been attacking immigrants for decades, you got to be a god damn idiot to equate ICE operating under Dems compared to Trump where ICE NOW HAS A BUDGET LARGER THAN THE MARINES, IS COMPLETELY EXEMPT FROM ANY LEGAL ACTION BECAUSE TRUMP HAS THROWN OUT THE CONSTITUTION, RAMPIDLY BUILT CONCENTRATION CAMPS AT A RECORD PASTETHAT ARE MORE RESTRICTED TO THE PUBLIC THAN EVER, AND NOW ARE MASS ARRESTING LEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND CITIZENS ALIKE.
All while the rule of law has been entirely abandoned.
It was bad for immigrants before, it’s actual Hell for everyone now.
Not to mention it’s gotten so much worse that you can actually observe it on national economic data.
Republicans despise them, Democrats love to use them. That isn’t necessarily better.
I think any marginalized community would prefer having the wiggle room of being able to exist and organize under hollow virtue signals than ACTIVE AND RAPIDLY EXPANDING GENOCIDE.
Call me crazy, but one seems a bit better than the other.
Fucking yes, the big Epstein reveal is that it’s all of them. The Trumps and the Clinton’s.
Completely avoiding the point. Are you playing stupid or is this just how you are?
REPUBLICANS BANNED ABORTION
REPUBLICANS WANT TO BAN CONTRACEPTIVES
Dems, believe it or not, fucking didn’t.
The only people you are helping by spreading this “both sides” BULLSHIT is the fascists. Take Trump’s tiny cock out of your mouth and smell the shit around you.
ICE NOW HAS A BUDGET LARGER THAN THE MARINES, IS COMPLETELY EXEMPT FROM ANY LEGAL ACTION BECAUSE TRUMP HAS THROWN OUT THE CONSTITUTION, RAMPIDLY BUILT CONCENTRATION CAMPS AT A RECORD PASTETHAT ARE MORE RESTRICTED TO THE PUBLIC THAN EVER, AND NOW ARE MASS ARRESTING LEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND CITIZENS ALIKE.
The same can be said between Trump’s first term and Biden’ presidency. The level of funding and militancy isn’t a function of R vs D, but a function of time as they because increasingly less cost effective and require increasing force to attempt to maintain/increase the level of eliminations.
All while the rule of law has been entirely abandoned.
You’re delusional if you believe in the “rule of law”, that’s never been how the justice system has worked in the US.
It was bad for immigrants before, it’s actual Hell for everyone now.
Sorry you can no longer sleep through brunch and now have to face the realities that immigrants and others have been facing for decades.
Not to mention it’s gotten so much worse that you can actually observe it on national economic data.
… What? Can you clarify what you mean by this and what data? This feels like Facebook level finger pointing and not based on any actual data or proper analysis, but I’m happy to be proven wrong there.
I think any marginalized community would prefer having the wiggle room of being able to exist and organize under hollow virtue signals than ACTIVE AND RAPIDLY EXPANDING GENOCIDE.
Your “group” being spared genocide as a tool to influct genocide on others is not the “easy moral dilemma” you make it out to be.
REPUBLICANS BANNED ABORTION
The bipartisan nominated supreme court banned abortion during a democratic party trifecta.
Blaming the Republicans primarily for that is as asinine as blaming the Democrats primarily for the current government shutdown.
Dems, believe it or not, fucking didn’t.
No? So they’re just completely powerless and their votes were forced even though they really, really didn’t want to?
The only people you are helping by spreading this “both sides” BULLSHIT is the fascists.
The difference is who we say are fascists. Yes, the Republicans are fascist, but so are the Democrats.
Take Trump’s tiny cock out of your mouth and smell the shit around you.
If there’s one thing we can agree on it’s that the elephant in the room is absolutely covered in shit. However, I’m busy trying to take the fucking animals outside and am currently begging for you to please, please stop sucking donkey cock, realize the problems, and help.
While you’re at it, go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.
Sure, which victim of Clinton’s should we start with?
“This is the problem with you Amerikkkan imperialists, you only care about your own people and don’t give a shit about anyone outside your country”
~(a paraphrase of) an actual reply I got one time when I shared this sentiment
That would be me, and it is truth
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There is, you can go back to reddit you crybaby
no thanks. i was banned there for saying the word nakba when talking about history.
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Kinda crazy how democrats now are just like: “Yeah, I eat a plate of shit. I don’t like it, but they told me that was the only option. So I did it, I’m proud of it, and anyone else should be ashamed to not be eating shit like me.”
It’s kind of funny, that democrats would rather eat bug infested cereals over a shit sandwich, when they could also push for cereals to be actually clean.
Tells you a lot about those people.
If you make me eat shit or cockroaches, I’d rather leave, thanks.
And they’re only pretending that they don’t like the taste.
Nah it is more like. We all have been eating shit but majority thought it is steak. Lets all eat super mega shit so that majority will start to recognize.
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not everyone wants to me a Marxist
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
The fact that there’s no discernible difference between the parties (or, worse, that Trump rhetorically can outflank Dems from the popular left) should cause Democrats to soul-search and come back with a better political strategy. Instead, we just get this dogmatic insistence that Liz Cheney and Michael Bloomberg are better options than Donald Trump, so you have to go pound pavement in the 100° weather knocking doors, begging friends and neighbors over the phone, and dipping into your kids’ college funds to “donate till it hurts” in an effort to get them elected.
It’s perfectly fine to dislike both
It clearly is not. That’s the fucking problem. Telling people “go eat dogshit because its tastier than horseshit” and then bitching when your shit stand can’t break even is the root of the problem.
Time and time and time again, liberal Democrats run away from the popular candidates in favor of the candidates that can raise the most money. Time and time and time again, these candidates lose to Republicans who are raising money from the exact same evil assholes.
And when we finally fucking see a populist start winning in a bright blue city like NYC, you get the liberal media leadership saying this shit on national television.
Bill Maher raises concerns over Mamdani’s Ugandan citizenship on ‘Real Time’
It’s Birtherism all over again.
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if you think Kamala Harris and Trump were equivalent
Obviously they’re different. One’s got a big “D” next to her name and climbed into her California Senate seat through Jerry Brown’s bed sheets. The other one was a billionaire mega-donor to Hillary Clinton’s Senatorial and Presidential Primary campaigns, and hung out with her husband on trips down to Epstein Island. Also he became a Republican a few weeks after Obama won the Presidency.
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I’d also spout this kind of nonsense
What you’re doing is called “Denialism”. You don’t want to accept that Donald Trump was a staunch friend, financial supporter, and NYC powerbroker working on behalf of the Democratic Party for decades. So instead of facing this reality and what it means about the state of the party, you’re going to cover your ears and pretend it didn’t happen.
If Harris were president right now, would we have gestapo roaming the streets, Nazi ghouls mentioning plenary authority, or giant corporations settling with the FCC to curry favor?
As she seemed intent on continuing the policies of the prior administrations, the answer is clearly “Yes”. We had gestapo doing their dirty work all through the American Southwest going back to the Polk Administration. Bush created ICE, Obama expanded ICE, Trump expanded ICE, Biden expanded ICE, and Kamala Harris campaigned on a platform of anti-immigration that would require her to expand ICE.
Would we have goons like Steven Miller and Curtis Yarvin ranting about unitary executives and divine right of kings under a Harris Administration? Absolutely. Would they be operating in friendly Republican gubernatorial cabinets and think tanks and Congressional offices? Absolutely. Would they be setting national policy through the courts and the legislature and red state executive offices? Absolutely. If Republicans still commanded Congress, would they be authoring national policy that President Harris eventually signed into law? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Would Larry Ellison and Bob Iger and Satya Nadella be kicking back tens of millions of dollars to Republican allies via “settlements”? Would Citadel and JP Morgan be bribing politicians with large purchases of shitcoins to get around campaign contribution limits and other anti-corruption laws? 100% guaranteed. They were doing this shit before Trump took office. Why would they stop now?
Your problem isn’t that these fascist policies exist. Your problem is that they’ve breached “containment” in Red States. Now it’s not just a Texas problem or a Florida problem. Its an Everybody problem. You can’t just ignore the fascism anymore. You can’t say “Those fuckers down south are getting what they deserve”.
Now you’re down in the shit here with the rest of us. Welcome to hell, asshole.
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Brother, you’ve got a worse case of brain worms than some Kennedys I could name.
Both are shit sandwiches. Trying to use analogy to obfuscate willing participation in genocide, perpetuation of imperialism, brutalization of immigrants, etc doesn’t actually erase material reality.
Organize.
Libs are almost pathologically reliant on analogies even in the simplest of scenarios because talking about things as they really are is often indefensible and would necessitate saying the most ghoulish and monstrous shit
Yep, it’s all smoke and mirrors.
Yup, they’re both the same thing, as long as you ignore the evidence of your eyes, ears and heart.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
It’s almost like 2 genocidal fascists can’t be considered “good” to begin with.
It’s almost like ignoring everything about a person except 1 aspect of them makes you too ignorant to talk about it.
Go back to Reddit where your lack of critical thinking skills will help you fit in.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else, and as such they share far more in common than not. I’m not ignorant, and you can take your faux-superiority back. I’ve been here far longer than you have, telling me to go back to Reddit doesn’t make any sense. I’m a communist, the devs are communists, and a lot of communists are on Lemmy after various subreddits like r/GenZedong, r/TheDeprogram, and r/ChapoTrapHouse got banned. What I say fits in here.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else,
Hardly. Democrats made it clear that they care about netanyahu’s political career above all else.
The purpose of supporting Israel is so that it secures US interests in the region.
I’m not pretending America is the best country, or Harris would be the best for the world.
I have 0 interest in Defending her, but claiming they’re the same with a straight face is fucking laughable. America would be a better country internally and on the global stage with her in charge, by any metric that isn’t “burn all capitalism down”.
Here’s an easy one - would Harris have sent a citizen to CECOT without a trial? Obviously not, because she’s demonstrably different from Trump, like any 3 year old could determine.
The US Empire is the world’s worst country. It’s the biggest exporter of genocide and terror, and the world’s biggest plunderer. Harris would maintain that exact same brutal system, domestically and internationally. It’s not hard to be better than them. Yes, Harris would send people to CECOT without trial, every imperialist president has done acts like that.
Chill out with the calling everyone to your left a child or a Russian bot, etc. It’s the peak of liberalism.
She sent a transwoman to mens prison, who got raped and joked about it.
You’re pathetically trying to defend this evil ghoul:Under her jurisdiction, in “progressive” San Francisco, 56% of all inmates in SF jails were black, along with 40% of all arrests (Only 5.8% of the population is black). Ignores police brutality, protected 14 of her officers who were caught sending extremely racist text messages. Oversaw San Francisco’s felony conviction rate rising from 52% to 67% in only 3 years.
As part of her tough on crime approach she assigned senior prosecutors to misdemeanors like graffiti and vandalism, tripling the number of cases brought to trial. After a federal judge orders California to expand prison releases to reduce crowding, her office argued in court that if forced to release these inmates early, prisons would lose an important labor pool. Spent years jailing disproportionately black nonviolent cannabis users while opposing taking cannabis off DEA’s list of most dangerous substances and literally laughing at the idea of legalizing it multiple times, even as her Republican opponent ran to the left of her on the issue. She then tried to pander by admitting to smoking herself despite prosecuting others, but got her story all wrong. Drug convictions under her office soared, convicting more people of marijuana possession than her predecessor (she also admitted to smoking marijuana) 2 Laughs about threatening parents with jailtime for truancy. 2. The stories of several mothers she jailed. Pushed a law that forced schools to turn over undocumented students to ICE. Opposed reforming California’s three-strikes law, which is the only one in the country to impose life sentences for minor felonies and incarcerates black people at 12x the rate as white people, three different times, even while her Republican opponent supported reform. Tried to deny a transgender inmate healthcare and endangered trans women by forcing them into mens prisons, leading to the rape and torture of at least one trans inmate. Appealed a judge ruling that the death penalty was unconstitutional and won on a technicality, resulting in continued executions. Supports the controversial DNA search technique that can be used on people even if they’ve not been charged with a crime. Supported the discriminatory practice of cash bail in court, until 2016. Protected serial child rapists by refusing to prosecute in the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal. Lied about her state’s solitary confinement to block a suit by inmates, claiming there was none in California when there were about 6,400 victims of the practice, which is considered torture. Opposed legislation that would require independent investigation of fatal police shootings despite criticism from many civil rights advocates including California’s Legislative Black Caucus. Opposed statewide implementation of police body cameras and ignored police brutality, multiple officers raping a teenager, and other officers sharing racist and homophobic messages, despite multiple requests from the public defender. Stood by silently as $730 million was spent on moving inmates to for-profit private prisons.And as cherry on the cake fully complicit in a horrible genocide, and you want to claim she would hypothetically be better in the future? LOL
You really disgust me. You are not better but worse.
It’s the hypocrisy that bothers me most, at least one side has the balls to say they’re fascists.
Unlike you cowardly worms pretending to be good while being absolute scum.
Hope you all get slow cancer.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
No one’s buying that democrats are “the good” anymore. They’re not even “the adequate.”
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
Democrats needed to do more to differentiate themselves. But they’re still stuck in 1992 and think that if they just triangulate with fascists and treat their own base as hostages, that they’re entitled to victory.
You’re not “forced” to do anything.
There are 3rd parties as always. You can find reasons and excuses not to vote for them but that’s all on you.
Glad you ended up with Trump.
Fascists and fascist-lite voters deserve it.What a juvenile take that doesn’t take into account reality at all. From Reddit are you? Go back.
right simpleton.
Go back to your interpretative dance with kibbutz Bernie
The problem here is structural. For president especially a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler. It’s less so if they can win for the house or senate. I would whole heartedly agree with you if the Us had a parliamentary or ranked choice. But we don’t and until we do; with the demo crates it’s a slightly more likely, then just vote for the least fascist that has a chance to win. Use your 3rd party vote in the primaries.
a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler.
And there we go with the excuses.
In non-banana republics with a normal political landscape and populations with spines there have been parties and candidates scoring 1-2 percent, then 10, then 60. Or the other way.
That’s how elections work, and nobody of those initial 1-2% voters gave up.
Since outside the US, nobody propagates that defeatist BS.But OC, this election is “the most important election in history and in our lifetime” so now is not the time to rdo such crazy things as not vote for a duopoly you supposedly don’t like but have since the beginning of your miserable country.
You have only yourself to blame and deserve zero sympathy.
On the contrary.
You’re like an arsonist that constantly burns houses and now cries because he managed to set his own home on fire.
Well burn baby burn.The US Empire will never pass ranked choice voting in a manner that allows for systemic change. The point of the political system is to perpetuate the economic system, and fixing the problems with society requires advancing to socialism and leaving capitalism behind.
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This thread is being targeted by a lot of no-content “correct the record” fediverse accounts, upvoting pro-genocide US democratic party and Israeli talking points. Please report them so we can ban them ASAP.
Thank you to all the posters below doing great work debunking them.
“YOURE A BOT!!!”
Some mf whose only posts are US corporate news and comments are 95% spreading the reddit lib bullet points
Your opinion is not shared by all, which should be obvious.
Ah, but the great thing about Communist jokes is that everyone gets them.
We have three mainstream parties. Works with that too.
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Yeah democrats really care about the poor.
And they totally wouldn’t increase the ICE budget, and deportations.
edit: By the way, you might want want to be a little less transparent with vote manipulation. I just banned 3 of your no-content alts.
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She has her own list of atrocities to account for, but most importantly, she’s pro-israel, and pro-genocide.
It’s so funny that the libs are downvoting this. So much for the ‘you have to look past her flaws for now, she’s our only chance against Trump’ rhetoric.
The campaign is over. She lost. What’s the excuse for still supporting her now?
Blue MAGA are doing their best to live up to the epithet. It was never about ideology or morality. Kamala is OUR TEAM and OUR TEAM GOOD.
The KHIVE is here to correct the record on her prison slave labor scandals, defense of white supremacist cops, disproportionate jailing of black people, and staunch support for Israel.
The point isn’t to defend her now, it’s to point out that it would have been much better if she won over trump. It’s to point out that If you didn’t vote for her, you are at fault for Trump’s win. It’s to point out that unless enough people figure out that concept real soon, we will lose the ability to gain some control in the midterms and we will probably lose our democracy for the foreseeable future.
“Let me mention a few negligeable differences like crypto and ignore all the blatant similarities which actually matter”
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A genocide is not when Russia kills mostly soldiers. War crimes sure, but not everything is genocide.
Also long range missiles are not “defensive weapons”
Those are small differences to you? Wow.
Anyway, this infighting is exactly what the shit-ass gop wants. Nice.
You advocating that people should vote for the duopoly is exactly what the duopoly wants.
Notice I didn’t say that either. Good reading skills, chump.
You mean champ. Or chimp?
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The Trump term has literally seen a truce to the genocide in Palestine. This isn’t an endorsement of Trump, he’s a fascist piece of shit, but to those constantly bickering about genocide being worse under Trump, where are you now?!
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No one actually believes he ended the war
There is no war, there is an ongoing genocide of Palestinians by the settler colony of Israel.
And yes, the genocide very much didn’t end unfortunately, and it won’t end until Isntreal is driven out of the region. But it has been ameliorated. By all accounts, dem supporters constantly were ranting about how “not voting for Kamala worsens the genocide”, and this is, factually, not what we’re seeing.
Trump has purposefully made the genocide in Ukraine far worse
There isn’t genocide in Ukraine, there is an inter-imperialist war going on in Ukraine. Using the label “genocide” to every conflict is very harmful to people like Palestinians who are actively being starved en-masse and kept out of reach of basic medicine, healthcare and even fucking drinking water.
There isn’t genocide in Ukraine
When Russia started relocating Ukrainian children into Russian families, that made it a coordinated effort to eliminate a people, which makes it a genocide.
You mean when they fulfilled their obligations under international law to move children away from active war zones?
Fucking monsters, they didn’t even put a wall of them in front of their weapons like true humanitarians in Ukraine.
After 2 years of insisting, Ukraine provided list of 339 names of missing children of which 161 were found living with parents in Germany. The entire “kidnapped children” take is pure atrocity propaganda.
On the other side, in 2014-2022 Ukraine killed 15000 people in Donbas and forced millions more to migrate. THIS is considtent with UN definition of genocide.
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Yeah sure everything you don’t like is Putin personal propaganda, i wish you swift and hard crash with reality.
Most of the claims of relocation of Ukrainian children to Russian families come from the government of Ukraine, not from independent investigative journalism. The Ukrainian government has obvious reasons to do this atrocity propaganda. The Russian government itself justified the start of the war on similar grounds, arguing that Russian ethnics in eastern Ukraine were being genocided by Ukraine through forced Ukrainization and the banning of Russian language. I don’t take the Russian government seriously when it makes such claims because I haven’t seen much independent journalism confirming it, I apply the same reasoning to the claim of Ukrainian children being kidnapped en-masse and forcibly Russified.
As far as I know, there are only a handful of independently confirmed cases of Ukrainian children being sent to adoptive families in Russia, and most children evacuated by the Russian military have been returned to their families in Ukraine. There aren’t many cases of either because, as you may expect, in an attrition war in which the movements of the frontline are slow, there are very few children near the frontlines.
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Some of the countries that have officially labeled Russia’s brutal invasion as a genocide include [list of geopolitical enemies of Russia]
France can’t even fucking recognize the state of Palestine until like a week ago, and now they’re authorities in genocide? Fuck them.
As for your points list:
#1 goes mostly from claims by the Ukrainian government. It is true that Russia has extracted children from the warzone and it is true that in some cases these children have been sent to adoptive families in Russia, which I heavily condemn, but it’s not a generalized thing and most confirmed extracted children have been returned eventually. The official numbers by the Ukrainian government aren’t confirmed by any investigative journalism and the invaded Ukrainian state has obvious motivations to claim abduction of Ukrainian children and violations of human rights. The Russian government makes similar claims of forced de-Russification of ethnic Russians in Donbas to justify its invasion of Ukraine, which I hope you don’t take seriously because it’s obviously state propaganda.
#2 A statement doesn’t make a genocide.
#3 Civilian deaths in the Ukrainian war, by any metric you want to use, are contained compared to any imperialist war carried out by the west. Civilian death ratio in the unlawful and horrifying invasion of Iraq was comparably much higher and it wasn’t a genocide in my opinion (probably not in yours either). However horrifying the invasion of Ukraine is, it responds to patterns of war between nations, not of genocide attempts against a population.
#4 Isolated instances of war crimes don’t imply a generalized intent to massacre civilians of a given ethnicity. War crimes are horrible and the perpetrators should be brought to justice, but again, the scale you bring of “hundreds” doesn’t respond to genocidal goals. Massacres of civilians take place in many wars (see Vietnam, Libya…) and are war crimes, but not every war crime is genocide.
Please, do not dillute the meaning of the word “genocide”. It’s meant to carry an extremely heavy connotation of attempt of total extermination of an ethnicity and culture, and throwing it around lightly is an injury to people suffering from it.
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And yet, still true.
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Now that’s some aggressive debateme
Okay, I’ll bite. Let’s fight.
Harris would be worse. Reasons:
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bluemaga is more pro genocide when dem is prez.
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Separating europe from usa is more likely when trump is prez. (euro rulers hate him somehow, even though he’s just as dumb and evil as them)
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yes she prosecuted and jailed so many innocent innocent kids in her past, and then continued under her vice presidency with her decisions and under direct administration to get so many people raped and genocided. so is your question, did we prefer to vote to get little raped rather than super raped? some would argue the latter because it’d cause a crisis to the system that would get the people to wake up and do something about it while little rape would be just as painful and last forever without change.
so remimd me, do you prefer little rape and prosection for your immediate family only that lasts forever without any hope or anyone fighting for you? or would you rather all your city get raped and prosecuted but with hundrends of millions of people nationwide and globally fighting the system to end it and free you?
You win! How should I have handled the 2024 election differently to save my country, they who have all the answers?
Also, please explain, when my choices were ONLY a little rape and a lot of rape how stamping my feet and loudly explaining that rape is bad would accomplish…. What?
so many people stamping their feet and loudly explaining that rape is bad is what would help bring this raping system down
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Cause, broadly speaking, both parties are very similar. Both sit way to the right of the main parties in most countries.
Do I need to pull up the Webster definitions of similar and same for you?
You can do what you like, what I wouldn’t bother do is pointing out the difference in the two main USA political parties, cause there’s no point. One does fascism and mistreats the working class with a smile, one does it with an angry face.
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Counting felonies under the law of evil? Makes sense for a harris (cop) supporter.
ACAB
ACAB 100%.
Harris is not my first, second, or 100th choice. She’s demonstrably better than Temu Hitler though.
Just tell me this first, would a casually fascist president really make you feel that much better than an overtly fascist one?
It’s something I’m really struggling to get my head round…cause I can’t believe how far right USA parties are compared to U.K. ones….and we are fucked.
“Just let me avoid answering your question and… “ No. They’re demonstrably not the same, as evidenced by you inability to answer the question. Also basic common sense.
No, I don’t think Harris would have ICE roaming the streets.
But then I don’t see the point in differentiating between casual and overt fascism. Both are way to the right of me.
I’ll ask again…are you ok with casual fascism?
The supposed democracy advocates within the democratic party continue to refuse to fix the First-past-the-post voting system.
Dont worry, you can count on them to point out all the flaws of the voting system during the midterm while doing nothing to fix it before or afterwards.
Trump was inevitable under such conditions. If you capture one (or more) political parties in a two party system, clearly you can undo every single check and balance. Wake up blue MAGA, your continued use of the FPTP crutch is a national security threat and will cause the nation to crumble.
Was it worth it keeping those safe blue states? Was it worth the easy elections against the worst of us all?
America last, party over country at all costs.
Electoral Reform Videos
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
the FPTP crutch is a national security threat and will cause the nation to crumble.
Don’t threaten me with a good time
So much focus on the lever that nobody is trying to derail or cut power to the trolly
Or be even more productive and go…
“STAND UP AND GET OFF THE FUCKIN RAIL AND GO LIVE YOUR LIFE!!!”
This.
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Tell your handlers to give you a different script for Lemmy than the one they gave you for reddit, read the room
With democrats at the (wheel?). Its the same trolley, the same track and the same people on it.
But they mostly abide by a legal speed limit and in general go much slower.
Sometimes they get to a full stopt and get out to clear some people manually to get back going.
The gop sees this and cries out that these slow speed limits are the problem. Go fast, get there quicker.
Neither party wants to talk seriously about where we’re going.
Neither wants to stop.
And they’re only going slower so they can keep going longer
in general go much slower
Tell that to Palestinians, the truce has been implemented famously not during democrat rule.
The only reason there is a “truce” is cause the Trump regime causes so much chaos they think they can get away with a hypernormalized fake truce.
Also Trump does not care one bit about what happens in reality as long as he believes that people believe him to be successful. Towards BN he is nothing but a useful fool.
Most media channels are happy to stop reporting about this cause it was getting old but the war and famine are going on unchanged.
The only reason there is a “truce” is cause the Trump regime causes so much chaos they think they can get away with a hypernormalized fake truce
So an amelioration of genocide is insufficient to you? Good, it’s insufficient to me too, that’s why I suggest voting against democrats too
Can you explain you reasoning because It just sounds like you fell for hypernormalization big time.
Just to make things clear. The Genocide is still ongoing. Trump won last time and the biggest difference it made is a classic trick got deployed to manage public perception of what the media thinks is going on.
I repeat voting against democracts does not remove any of the issues, we are just more Frequently gaslighted against forming resistanc under Trump
The best strategy to move away from capitalism with the least bloodshed is to have people need to vote democrat during elections and then instantaneously organize mass protest against them after they win.
How are we more gaslighted against resistance with Trump? People are mobilizing in much higher numbers now, and they were quite literally shutting their ears during the Kamala campaign not to hear the names of genocide victims.
FIY
Part of why Trump won is because the majority of people loath the democrats for their blatant support of Israel. Even Bernie took a big popularity hit because of it. I am not sure where you get the perception that the people mobilising now were somehow ignorant of genocide before.
We are gaslighted against resistance because media is getting flooded with scandals and misinformation to be upset about, making it harder to unite because everyone has a different priority issue.
The no kings protest is getting people outside because many people are realising there is a major issue which deserves priority, getting the dictator out the peoples house.
You seem to confuse these people as belonging to the same groups as the weirdo democrat fans that show up to their events but its a feature by design of a two party system that the majority of voters dislike and loath the party they vote for.
Verifiably Reality is AIPAC funds both parties and both support muslim genocide, towards the Palestinian people there is no effective difference.
Also verifiable, the gop created a blueprint for turning the US in a literal fascist dictatorship, which they have been executing.
Lol, didn’t the news report that israël didn’t even try to stop killing gazan ?
By all metrics, the genocide has slowed down in scope. It’s obviously insufficient and the genocide truly won’t be over until the settler colonial entity is driven out of the region, but what we are seeing isn’t a worsening of the genocide due to Trump as libs predicted.
Yeah since they nearly finished to kill everyone they are slowing, thanks Trump. After I join you on the fact that the same would have happen if it was dem.
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What are you talking about? How is the genocide under Trump any worse than it was during Democrats??
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what?
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Shit none of them talk about where theyre at. The bleeding edge of late stage capitalism.
Innacurate. Obama used drones, saving countless american lifes. You naughty tankie.
except for that one guy and his son
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They just do nothing to stop the fascists when they have power and do everything they can to compromise with them.
If there’s one lesson to be learned this year, it’s that politicians who compromise with fascists are still miles better than just uncompromised fascism.
What’s the actual difference? You end up at the same place with either one.
Says who? Yeah, the Dems are filthy neolibs, but all they really care about is money and influence. They’re rainbow capitalists.
The other is literally based on hate and fear, they might actually care about building a christo-nationalist ethnostate more than money.
They certainly have some goals in common, but even compromise isn’t going to the same place.
but all they really care about is money and influence.
Correct.
That is why they maintain American imperialism.
Such as funding a genocide in the middle east.
Exactly. They fund genocide because it’s politically expedient. The opposition funds genocide because they love killing brown people
It’s conceivable to convince one side that genocide is no longer politically favorable. You’re never going to convince the other side to stop wanting to kill brown people. There is no third option with prospects to win.
You cannot convince the rich and powerful that it’s politically unfavourable when it’s economically favourable to do genocide.
They don’t care about what people want. They care about what they want, and that’s US imperialism.
This feels like trying to explain to someone that you can have 2 different infinities, and one is larger than the other. Both are bad, but one is clearly worse.
“What’s the difference if you end up at the same place?”
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide. It is reasonable to criticize the people supporting a genocide while at the same time recognizing that the people wanting more genocides are not the same.
The only real difference is that there are consequences for you at home in the US and that’s the only part you actually care about
I don’t live in the US, there are no consequences for me as a result of Trump being president. Significantly more people are being harmed under Trump and I actually give a shit about other people instead of putting some idealized moral high ground above actual human lives.
People were being harmed under Biden, our foreign and domestic policy has consequences for the vast majority of the world, you’re either a moron or lying
Zero genocide isn’t an idealised moral high ground and it’s incredibly telling to see someone excuse it.
And a million dead kids because Trump killed usaid but go off I guess.
“But what about the american children” like I said
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide.
How do you find yourself typing something like this and not pause for thought?
What’s worse than genocide?
2 genocides.
I don’t know how to make this any more clear.
Seriously, how do you not pause for thought typing that out?
Hell yeah brother. Personally I think Hitler was fucking great and would vote for him in a heartbeat if it meant stopping Himmler from being in charge. /s
politicians who compromise with fascists are still miles better than just uncompromised fascism
the paradox of tolerance, ever heard of it?
Yup. Ever heard of Duverger"s Law?
Great hero of the people: Neville Chamberlain
If you had to choose between Neville Chamberlain and Hitler?
I’d say that’s a ridiculous choice and it’s time to organize with the masses against the system that presented it to us; rather than undermine that effort by treating the system as legitimate and shaming others for not seeing the candidates and their futures the way I did.
Hand me two cups of shit, I still have free will to throw them back in your face. The system can force feed if it wants but you won’t see me voluntarily picking a shit cup and eating shit.
I’d say that’s a ridiculous choice and it’s time to organize with the masses against the system that presented it to us
Agreed
rather than undermine that effort by treating the system as legitimate and shaming others for not seeing the candidates and their futures the way I did.
Nah that’s dumb. I don’t give a shit about “treating the system as legitimate”. The system is what it is, and it will continue to be the system until it isn’t anymore. That’s gonna take more than a handful of people refusing to acknowledge the system’s “legitimacy”.
Hand me two cups of shit, I still have free will to throw them back in your face. The system can force feed if it wants but you won’t see me voluntarily picking a shit cup and eating shit.
It is doing that though. You get the option to vote for which of the two cups they force feed you, and everyone else. We are not presently in a position to throw anything back right now. When we are, I’m all for it. But part of that is choosing the smaller cup of shit while we gather strength.
The point is I’m not going to lend you any legitimacy by picking up the shit and eating it myself, then turning at the people around me and asking why they aren’t eating it yet. I’m going to make it impossible for the shit peddler to hide their willingness and ability to abuse their power. If I’m eating shit either way, why would I do it in a way that makes it apparent to outsiders that I’m choosing to eat shit?
And no, when you scold people for not participating in a system, you are not just not “refusing to acknowledge its legitimacy”. You are promoting it, whether you care to or not. You are promoting the idea that everyone is choosing these options out of complete and true support of complete and unbiased information. This is especially true when people like you misrepresent and refuse to understand the arguments of those who choose to abstain or vote third party.
You are saying, “if you participate in this system, you could change the way things are going; and if you don’t, then you implicitly consent to it”, which is simply not true. Interestingly enough, you know how little power a person has when acting as an individual, which is why you minimize the reach of individuals when it comes to forms of political action other than voting, but you never apply it to the situation of voting where the ruling class has vast numbers of ways to influence people’s behaviors in whatever direction they want.
The change can only come when we have built the ability to move cohesively as a class, or a voting bloc if you will, that can either take power for itself or force our leaders to come to our table if they want our compliance. We can only build this by overcoming the resentment we hold for other members of our class, and putting one foot in front of the other; turning one person at a time towards the inner workings of the machine that the ruling class works so hard to hide. Not by stoking resentment and wasting our energy trying to manipulate an illegitimate system while we wait around for the movement to build itself.
More like choosing between Hindenburg and Hitler.
Is committing genocide not a fascist act?
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God, how much is a sniveling little toad do you have to be to engage in that kind of nit picking semantics about genocide.
Fascism provides a specific permission structure for genocide that isn’t present in other systems. That’s not to say genocide didn’t happen before the term was coined, but that the characteristics of fascism; nationalism, racial supremacy, military supremacy, victim complex, out groups, scapegoating, disdain for human rights, etc.; tend to be present anywhere that genocide is present, and genocide doesn’t just happen because some “genocidal regime” found its way into power.
Whether or not you need their permission to make the policy; you need the people’s permission for it to stand, because ultimately you need the people’s voluntary compliance in order to carry it out. Otherwise you undermine your own system and generally incite resistance against it.
They aren’t fascists, yet they’re committing a genocide:
Democrats: against every genocide except the current one.
The world cares about what they do to other nations, not to themselves. Crazy gun policies? Slave labour in prisons? Your problem. Military expansionism, cripling economic sanctions, political inference? Very much our problem. That did’t change.
I don’t give a shit about " bankrupting the US!". It literally prints it’s own money. But I sure as shit do remember Democrats going full fascist and participating in the modern Holocaust.
democrats are no saints.
By which you mean they’re genocidal monsters.
I’m sympathetic to your argument, but ultimately they absolutely are fascist. If you doubt me, then to ask a Palestinian. There is very little that the Trump regime is doing that the Democrats weren’t doing less obnoxiously and on a much slower timescale.
We can’t keep accepting the lesser evil indefinitely. When you brush off the serious issues in the Democratic party with language like “no saints” you make it look like that’s exactly what you intend for the country to do. I mean “politicians will be politicians”. That’s not convincing anymore.
If you doubt me, then to ask a Palestinian.
Just to clarify this to others:
There is very little that the Trump regime is doing that the Democrats weren’t doing less obnoxiously and on a much slower timescale.
That part is important. I hear you about “the lesser evil” but if you’re response to resisting a lesser evil results in a faster, accelerated evil then you have contributed to a much greater harm. If you doubt me, ask a Palestinian if they are better off with Democrats not having any power.
If you doubt me, ask a Palestinian if they are better off with Democrats not having any power.
Biden was in power when the genocide started and during most of it. He had the power to stop it and didn’t. So there’s your answer.
So the Genocide hasn’t accelerated under Trump as OP claimed?
No. It continued at the same rate. It is a nonsensical argument anyways. Biden could have stopped it but chose to pass it on to Trump.
Okay, don’t vote for Biden then.
Swapping faces changes nothing. The rot starts with the DNC and without a formal apology for enabling the genocide the party is dead to me just like the Republicans. Two corpses fighting it out and I am not into necrophilia.
They’re certainly no worse off.
OP just said that under Trump the genocide is happening faster and you don’t consider that worse off?
Because they’re lying; the genocide was just as bad under Biden
To put it differently, if they are the proximate cause of the Trump presidency, then you are the ultimate cause. I throw up my hands at trying to decide which matters more.
That’s the part where I’m sympathetic to your argument. I think anyone not voting for Harris made a mistake. I also think the arguments people like you made for people to vote for Harris were really really bad and that you are enabling the Democrats to continue down a terrible path of failure.
I also think the arguments people like you made for people to vote for Harris were really really bad and that you are enabling the Democrats to continue down a terrible path of failure.
The argument I made for people to vote for Harris was that this is exactly what will happen if Trump wins, and 3 months before an election is not the time to try to get a viable alternative. Harris sucked, her campaign was shit, but the alternative is running the predictable course.
Now is an excellent time to work on a viable alternative, but saying “both are the same” is disingenuous, and is not actually putting an alternative forward.
