Geez, lots of paleontologists have skeletons in their closets.
Sorry
I for one, enjoyed your pun.
A paleontologist and a pale ontologist walk into a bar…
I mean if your company is owned or adminstrated by an epstein associate they should be forced to put up a sign and register as a sex offender (corporations are people, after all).
This message brought to you by Microsoft*
(*Microsoft is a registered sex offender)
Lmao. That italic/asterisk text would be amazing to see IRL. Although I feel like it would be rarer for a corporation to not have that.
It just seems correct, like how it should have been all along.
I want to announce that everyone in the Epstein files is banned from my house, with the exception of Bill Gates, who was already banned and is now double banned.
Don’t you hate it when a good boycott comes along, and you can’t participate because you’ve already been boycotting them for some previous atrocity? I keep finding good reasons to boycott United, but I’ve been boycotting them for decades.
At this point I whitelist rather than blacklist.
How stunning and brave of you to stand up for what is right.
Clearly those in the files will feel the hot wrath of justice by not being able to ever go over to your place for Hot Pockets and Capri Suns.
I’ll have you know my homemade hummus and baba ganoush platter is the talk of the neighborhood.
Recipie tax or b&. 🔫
You make them like normal but add more allspice than you’d think is reasonable. And a bit of smoked paprika on the ganoush. And don’t skimp on the olive oil. I’m talking
Also, broil the eggplants after they’re done, before you scoop the goodness out (you can also barbeque them). And don’t blend them, you want that weird texture.
Serve with pita and little boats of celery, carrots. bell pepper, onion, whatever you want that is crunchy and can scoop globs of them
I feel like Mia Wallace after just doing a line of blow in Jack Rabbit Slim’s bathroom. “I said goddamn!”
Excellent contribution, chatter. Uncritical support.
Real glad I’m not in the Epstein files right now. I don’t think I could handle missing out on homemade baba ganoush. I’ll pick up some shawarma and be right over
I’ll bring the pita bread my brother in God.
And next up is Jimmy Babaganoosh!
If yall been having people mentioned in the files visiting your house then I got a lot of questions for you that I didn’t have before reading this.
I like that they’re also banning anyone not doing a similar ban
Ditto. Specially because they’re focusing on the executives of those organisations, i.e. the people with actual decision power. That’s the right way to do it.
“Hold people accountable or else we will hold you accountable”
What if you’re not sure all this passionate witch-hunting is a good thing? Is that allowed?
It’s banning sunshine from a convention, not throwing them in prison. That’s not witch hunting, that’s something every convention does with problematic guests. Conventions are held by organizations and businesses - they have just as much right to kick and ban people as any other org or business. Nobody’s being hurt, persecuted, or prosecuted. Your argument is invalid.
Last I checked people being associated with others who have raped, mutilated, and killed children for little more than a power grab also makes you a horrible person by association.
There are many levels of association.
For example, I might be invited to a conference. And I might decline that invitation. There now we’re associated by those emails. Am I a horrible person now?
If that was an argument such people could make, they’re welcome to present evidence.
However, anyone who voluntarily associated with the world’s worst pedophile after his conviction has no excuse. Comparing people to the company they keep has been valid since the beginning of time.
The question was : am I a horrible person now?
They answered. If you have evidence that you declined, then no.
From the wording I’m willing to bet they did a bit more investigation than just doing a pass/fail on a Ctrl+f
I do strongly suspect so. That or bot.
For example, I might be invited to a conference. And I might decline that invitation. There now we’re associated by those emails. Am I a horrible person now?
Did you reach out to ask to be invited? Or did you receive an invite and decline it. Because we’re talking about the former. We’re talking about people who reached out to Epstein or his associates. They were in contact with.
So yes, that would make you a horrible person, especially after the allegations came out. And you’re a horrible person for doing your absolute damndest to defend these people.
You got banned from Dinocon, didn’t you.
Witches are fictional. The above is not.
Don’t overheat your little 2-bit processor now
Excuse me? Witch hunts were fueled by religious superstition. People were hanged, burned, drowned for being things that don’t exist in the real world, and bedding a fallen angel for magical powers. Tell me how the fuck this correlates. Aside from Epstein and Trump being the fucking Devil.
Secondary sanctions from a dino convention. Based.
What a time we live in, where somehow this is a hot take. Reading these comments just makes me sad, like how do we have so many fucking boot lickers that are defending associates of child rapists. Good fuck man this society is so trashed. I don’t think we come back from this timeline. We are beyond saving.
DinoCon for pres
Bruh why… how was this dudes reach into everything
When you’re a global criminal organization, you ensure immunity by blackmailing and/or extorting every single person in a position of power as much as possible. There’s a reason these monsters have gotten away with it–and continue to get away with it–for so damn long
Also, if you’re someone who is seeking power, you do everything you can to suck up to people with it. There are plenty of people in every field who are willing to put up with, or do, horrible things to be treated like they’re special.
He did get his start in education. Given a job he was unqualified for by [traitorous] former AG Bill Barr’s father (who also wrote creepy pedo sci fi novels)
pretty much. Basically everyone who is of note is implicated in the files. It’s ridiculous
I feel you could get into the list by sending a letter asking for funding for some science work
I’d be curious if you find any cold call messages asking for science funding in the documents release. From what I see, it’s people who are socializing benifiting from associating with powerful people. I’ve also seen an email where someone asked him if he would be interested in upgrading the computer labs for a school he clearly made the calculation that he wasn’t getting anything out of it and so gave an excuse for why he couldn’t contribute.
Wow so many pedo apologizers in the comments.
I never thought I would see pedophilia become a political issue.
The MAGA cult is real.
Well, y’know, those little girls were sluts. /S
My online friend lists have been through the chopping block recently, a good society must have intolerance for the intolerant and devious.
There’s zero excuse for an adult to sexually assault a child, or to have known and kept the secret.
not everyone who ever interacted with Epstein was/is a pedophile.
he had a broad network of various levels of social gatherings and sex parties. not all of them were pedo parties. the majority were not.
the notion that anyone who ever interacted with him in anyway is a pedophile or pedophile supporter is an incredibly broad and stupid approach. there are various levels of participation and interact with him. he clearly had an inner circle, an outer circle, and then 10000s of tangential connections with various people. hopefully with more disclosure of the files who is who will become apparent.
punish the guilty who committed crimes. not their associates. guilt by association is cognitive bias that seeks to punish innocent people for merely being in proximity to those who commit crimes.
This is specifically in regards to those who continued to have correspondence and business dealings with Epstein after his first conviction for raping and rape trafficking literal children. This is not legal punishment, this is an organization drawing a line and choosing to not let these people be involved with them.
You can be very shitty and dangerous person and still be well within the law, these folks are simply protecting themselves and everyone involved with them from people that knowingly interacted and did business with a child rape cabal.
Epstein’s behavior was publicly well-known long before his initial arrest. I remember my first thought was “Finally, what took them so long?”
Anyone who had ANY contact with him after his 2008 conviction, who pursued any kind of relationship with him - personal, business, friendship, networking, sex client, etc. - is burned. They knew who he was, and any reasonable, moral person, especially one with public responsibilities, should have know to avoid any contact, of any kind.
There was no valid reason for having a personal relationship with Epstein after 2008, and anyone who did, deserves all the public derision and contempt they receive.
This is a fair take, and I greatly prefer an “innocent before proven guilty” justice system. I think it’s also fair for you to read the article before commenting.
The Society of Vertebrate Paleontology released a notice to members last week, cautioning that inclusion in the Epstein files does not alone imply misconduct.
And who is going to determine what misconduct is? They have a crack team of legal experts reading all the files? devil is in the details.
the issue I’m addressing is the broader moral panic and the moral grandstanding that goes along with it that surrounds this whole thing, and pedophilia in general, or that these types of symbolic gestures are some form of justice for the crimes of Epstein and his trafficking associates.
“I don’t like people not interacting with folks who were close to a violent child rapist after knowing he was a violent child rapist, you’re making too big of a deal out of it.” - you
I don’t really think it’s up to DinoCon to solve crimes. Obviously symbolic gestures aren’t justice, but I don’t really see what else DinoCon is supposed to do. Are you honestly asking DinoCon to spin up a crack team of legal experts to manage the epstein case? Maybe we should have GenCon start tracking down serial killers while we’re at it.
Professionally speaking? They should privately dis-invite the speakers or seminar leaders who make questionable appearances in the files, but not make a public hoopla over it. They probably have a ethics of conduct code that might have been demonstrably violated.
But I have no idea what criteria they would be using to make those calls. For all we know maybe they have no codified ethics codes as an organization.
My beef with it is the virtue signalling publicity. Making a big public stink about benefits who exactly? It’s little more than grandstanding moralizing PR.
I mean, yes, but also, in the OP statement “after his conviction.”
As in, after we knew what he was doing, why would peoppe ever associate with him again.
Its not even some weird ass “gray area” thing where you are an 18 year old in HS dating a 16 year old at your HS. Its literally sex trafficking of very minor minors.
innocent before proven guilty is only a thing where the crime is actually being investigated. because it’s not, nearly any actions and considerations by individuals is fair game. technically it always was.
That motherfucker
ruinedtarnished dinosaurs too!? edit, i still like dinosaurs.That fucker ruined Linguistics too — he was in friendly terms with Noam Chomsky.
Personally I am not aware on how much Chomsky should be blamed for this association; it’s possible Epstein was simply using him. But even in the hypothesis Chomsky is innocent, it stinks.
Chomsky adviced Epstein on how to deal with the public backlash, for Epstein being a convicted pedophile. There is no evidence that Chomsky did something illegal, but it certainly stinks.
Yeah.
At the very least we can safely blame him for not doing basic due diligence: even a hypothetically honest “I didn’t know” shows disregard for the victims of his “associate”. It’s already morally awful, even if [AFAIK] it wouldn’t be illegal in USA. [Would it?]
There’s also the possibility he actually knew about it, but didn’t act on it. Morally speaking that would be even worse than the above, and [again, AFAIK] already a crime (omission).
When Chomsky was asked what he corresponded with epstein about years ago, he said essentially “none of your fucking business”.
Which is such a bad answer, I am half inclined to believe he just wanted help filing his taxes and a guilty Chomsky would have the sense to lie.
I am half inclined to believe he just wanted help filing his taxes and a guilty Chomsky would have the sense to lie.
Yup, that sounds like him. He isn’t above bullshitting but not bothering to bullshit hints he believed he had nothing to hide.
I guess he’s still in the “when in doubt, treat them as innocent” category for me.
That sounds like Chomsky? Doing the taxes of an uber wealth financier/convicted pedophile?
Stop lying to yourself.
That sounds like Chomsky? Doing the taxes of an uber wealth financier/convicted pedophile?
The inverse: the über rich paedophile doing Chomsky’s taxes. Get things right if you want to screech dammit.
Plus Chomsky being smart+shitty enough to bullshit when in trouble, instead of saying “none of your business”. If Chomsky did the later instead of the former, it’s a sign he didn’t see any need to bullshit.
Stop lying to yourself.
A person lying to oneself would not say “when in doubt”. Or to “not [be] aware on how much Chomsky should be blamed”. Or talk about the “hypothesis” he is innocent. They’d be vomiting certainty: “Chomsky is [innocent|guilty] lol”.
Instead, a person lying to oneself would be vomiting certainty like an assumer, re-eating their own vomit, and expecting others to eat it too.
So perhaps the one being a liar (or worse, an assumer) here is not me.
Sure thing, buddy. Whatever you need to tell yourself.
We all knew who Epstein was by that point. He should know better.
How self deluded do you need to be in order to convince yourself that Chomsky reached out to the most notorious convicted pedophile in American history for some help with his taxes?
I mean, Jesus Christ dude… It’s like you NEED this to be true.
Sure thing, buddy. Whatever you need to tell yourself.
…since you’re insistently lying (yes) about what I need: I don’t “need” him to be innocent, and I don’t “need” him to be guilty. From my PoV he’s simply some old guy, with a bunch of hypotheses that range from “this is interesting” to “nah, bollocks”, always backpedalling when proved wrong. That’s it.
Is this clear?
(Also take a clue from the fact I was the one bringing him up, even if the thread is about the DinoCon.)
We all knew who Epstein was by that point. He should know better.
Yes, and? Myself said so in another comment dammit. The question here is how much he should be blamed. Should we blame him for:
- Abusing some children himself?
- Not abusing them, but actively helping Epstein to do so, in matters directly related to the abuse?
- Not directly helping Epstein with the abuse, but knowing to be associated with a paedophile, and not giving a fuck about it?
- Not knowing he was associated with a paedophile, but being in a position he should have done so?
- Nothing?
Are you getting the picture? It’s a fucking gradient of shit. Both #1 and #5 are likely bollocks; but from #2 to #4 it’s all “maybe”. We don’t know what he did, and we don’t know what he knows.
And before some muppet says “but you said «I guess he’s still in the “when in doubt, treat them as innocent” category for me.»!!!”: I was clearly talking about what I formalised as #3. This is bloody obvious by context dammit, check the comment I was answering to!
How self deluded do you need to be in order to convince yourself that Chomsky reached out to the most notorious convicted pedophile in American history for some help with his taxes?
That is not even remotely close to what I said.
You don’t even know what you’re screeching at.
At this rate it’s safe to ignore you as dead weight and a noise. Feel free to keep screeching at your own assumptions, as if you were screeching at what I said, but don’t expect me to read it.
Sadly there’s a lot of intelectuals that were involved, Lawrence Krauss, Noem Chomsky, Steven Hawking just scratching the surface.
No one should be surprised that known sex pest Krauss was mixed up with Epstein.
How the heck was Stephen Hawking involved??
I have no words to explain the levels of disappointment and rage I am feeling at this moment.
When you’re very rich and influential it is easy to get access to all the top scientists to discuss your quack ideas. Who knows what happened beyond that, the thing is that they’re involved anyway.
Fuck you, stop giving him power he doesn’t have.
He didn’t ruin or tarnish all of paleontology. He can’t.
Jesus Christ you fucking people.
Based
What part of science is guilt by association fallacy? Rash judgement is at odds with science. Did you know criminals can associate with noncriminals?
To flip this around, ostracizing others “out of safety” for associating with ex-convicts (who had been processed & released to society) is morally compromised & dishonest, ie, immoral. Talking to someone who did something wrong doesn’t imply you did something wrong. Neither does taking their money. Indulging fallacies is not a hallmark of scientific thought & is more consistent with the repressive, medieval thought scientists fought very hard to overcome.
Sages of major religions famously associated with undesirables: outcasts, untouchables, murderers, dangerous felons, etc. By the “logic” of that announcement, communities should have banned Buddha & Jesus (also mentioned in the Epstein files). Those that didn’t were “deplorable” for “not taking firm action to protect” members “in light of” blanket “allegations” that fail to specifically accuse them. If they were sanctimonious enough, they too could have done “more”.
Post needs text alternative for image of text.
Images of text break much that text alternatives do not. Losses due to image of text lacking alternative such as link:
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Contrary to age & humble appearance, text is an advanced technology that provides all these capabilities absent from images.
In case you missed it, these are people who knew Epstein was an unrepentant child molester. Epstein was proven guilty in court, made no statements of remorse, and these scientists continued to validate and support his behavior for years after, up until his death. If he had accepted responsibility for his crimes, I would feel differently about people who decide to associate with him while he spent the rest of his life in prison. But I doubt these scientists would have. The reason they liked Jeffrey was because he got away with everything. They admired his ability to rape on an industrial scale without consequences.
Nobody should ever be guilty by association. However, nobody is entitled to be a respected dino scientist. That is something you earn, and I see no reason not to include their feelings about child rape when discussing whether most attendees would feel comfortable with them at a conference.
According to the Montana Standard, after his name surfaced in the released files, Horner posted, and later deleted, a social media statement calling his decision to pursue Epstein’s support an extremely poor judgment. He said that while he knew Epstein had been convicted of soliciting prostitution, he was unaware of Epstein’s broader sex trafficking operation until years later.
Horner wrote that his visit involved only Epstein, staff, and several women introduced as college students. […]
I can see where the judgement lapse happened, but that’s a pretty big lapse. I’m pretty ok removing these folk until the dust settles from events like this.
Sounds like Horner was being willfully ignorant, or pretending to be, about the trafficking.
Either way he can fuck off.
Nah. The guilt by association fallacy is more like:
- [P1] Hitler ate bread.
- [P2] Hitler was a bad person.
- [C] Thus if you eat bread, you’re as bad as Hitler.
That is not even remotely close to what the DinoCon is doing. If we interpret their actions as an argument, it’s more like:
- [P1] Knowingly associating yourself with a bad person makes you a bad person.
- [P2] Those people knowingly associating themselves with Epstein, a bad person.
- [C] Thus those people are bad people.
You might disagree with the first premise (it’s a moral premise, so it depends on your values), but the argument is perfectly logical.
Since justice ain’t working people are taking it upon themselves.
Socializing with known child molesters is beyond the pale. If the government isn’t going to deal with them properly one of the better options for the rest of us is to exile them from society. Anyone that’s not on board with this can fuck off right along with them.
I normally agree with you about guilt by association, but these people are currently an IMMINENT threat to every living thing on the planet. I am truly ok with a small amount of collateral damage to excise the cancer before it STRANGLES US TO DEATH. They control everything. Every mechanism of power or change. We cannot allow them the very obvious influence over the extensive investigation that their position afford. We need to purge our power structures of this before anything else can be done about it.
At some point it comes down to incentives, to not shun such terrible people just helps increase their influence. Accepting their money makes it look like you think what they did isn’t bad. Terms like greenwashing exists just highlight this problem, we have to make it clear it’s unacceptable to behave like that and that you can not buy your way out of consequences.
It’s basic risk assessment
Literally everything else you’re talking about is solved by ensuring due process is followed
Science without morals and ethics leads to amazing developments, but often misguided or twisted understanding, and unbridled human suffering.
It’s not enough to be a good scientist, one must also be a good person. The people involved with Epstein are UNREPENTANTLY evil. These are not people who are in the “grey” like a leper who was an untouchable or a murderer who killed unintentionally and regrets it their whole life. A true scientist doesn’t need the law to tell them that someone is highly likely to be a monster when the evidence is mounting. Rather they would chase the evidence and do their best to make a decision based on the most logical outcome.
A good scientist who is also a good person must work to excise this toxicity from the scientific community.
Also, Budda and Jesus? A terrible bad faith argument, I can’t dignify that with anything other than dismissal
“Science without morals and ethics leads to amazing developments, but often misguided or twisted understanding, and unbridled human suffering.”
Exactly this. I see way too many scientists who may not be actively bad people, but they convince themselves that it’s possible to do science in an apolitical manner.
I believe that science is able to get as close to objectivity as is possible to achieve. However, individual scientists can never be objective, and the more they think of themselves in that way, the less objective the resulting science is.
Well well well, this feels familiar. Pardoning Pedophiles? Ain’t no such thing.
This isn’t necessarily about justice or guilt. They aren’t being imprisoned or sentenced. An organization is choosing not to permit them where their members & the public gather, for “protection”.
If these individuals were suspected of being in contact with a dangerous contagious disease, you’d hopefully not find it unscientific to minimize risk by telling them not to come to a convention.
But being a child rapist, or ASSOCIATING with child rapists isn’t a contagious disease. No, but due to their association to members of a prolific child trafficing ring, they may be considered a higher risk for a certain subset of convention-goers (which claims to offer fun for people of all ages)
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
- usability
For a second there at first I thought DinoCon referred to the DNC.
Ha, that will be the day. I bet dnc figures are on the list and redacted from what the justice department released for reasons that may include them knowing information on the president and his favorites themselves that they could release in retaliation for letting the information on them through.
Based paleontologists
It’s a low bar.
You can PUNISH People who RAPED LITTLE CHILDREN?
-Americans!
Nah, Americans make those people President.
