Apologies in advance for further inundating everybody’s headspace with celebrity slop, but I wanted to blab about this:
I generally have no faith in public personalities to hold any convictions at all, so it has been refreshing for Hasan to adhere to his position against voting for Gruesome Newscum. I don’t at all mean to imply that he’s perfect, or that people should look to him as a leader in any respect, it’s just nice to see something like that happening and getting broad exposure. Feels good.
I was surprised by his answer. Probably part of the reason why he’s now openly saying he wouldn’t vote for gavin is because he wants dems to understand that their only option for winning the election is to move to the left, and not already make them feel safe with going for Newson so early on.
I’m annoyed that I’m already confronted with this endlessly frustrating discussion but I suppose it’s good that Hasan is now combatting this bad ’harm reduction’ narrative.
Hasan has always been pro-Marxist despite his entryist presentation, too many people were simply negatively primed by the destiny led hate campaign and admitting they were misled is too much for some egos
I don’t think anyone here is getting any fraction of their opinion from that douchebag. People here don’t like Hasan because he’s not a good representation of MList thought.
They’re not getting it directly but they are influenced by him indirectly
The fact so many here fell for that shock collar smear campaign proved that once and for all, not to mention those times multiple users used r/LSF has a source for their anti-Hasan takes
He explicitly does this on purpose though. The average lib is too far propagandized to become ML directly and they need a slower progressio. Hasan has explicitly said in The Deprogram podcast that he’s the funnel to the communist pipeline.
I’m not saying I don’t agree with his approach, I was figuring why Hexbears might not like Hasan.
Oh, you meant Destiny by douchebag, gotcha!
He also didn’t endorse Kamala (though he admitted months later that he did vote for her)
I think he would’ve endorsed her with even a promise of a crumb of decent policy, but alas, she had nothing to offer.
He also didn’t endorse Kamala (though he admitted months later that he did vote for her)
Did he ever say why? He’s in California and he knows how this stuff works. Why vote for her in secret when your vote doesn’t even matter?
I don’t know if he did, he only revealed it during his debate with Ethan KKKlein AFAIK
I agree that there was no reason to do so living in a blue state
You misspelled “Ethanic Kleinsing”
He has always said he’d probably vote for harris and the day he voted he said he voted for her as well.
Were the PSL candidates on the ballot in Cali?
Even if we just assume that the Dems were the leftmost party and not even the Greens were on the ballot and you couldn’t write anyone in, it’s a more reasonable calculus in that situation to not vote because it’s the only way to communicate something compatible with left-opposition.
Yes, nominated by the Peace and Freedom Party (only explicitly socialist party with ballot access in CA, PSL candidates have run through PFP in CA for a while now)
they were under a different party name i think because of how ballot access works
The dude who consistently opposes the use of the word “tankie” and considers us good for the left is probably gonna have some good positions underneath what he does to be popular.
Exactly this. He’s not “hiding his power level”, he’s playing a role. The role is media personality that explains Marxism to the masses in a digestible way, and applies a general left perspective to current events. He mainly does news commentary, and in a world where news media doesn’t investigate or think critically, it’s a valuable vector for propaganda.
The Hasan hater cohort here wants Hasan to parrot our party line to a T.
If you want Marxist theory explained to you in a video format, Hakim and JT Chapman already do a much better job of that. Does Hasan understand the culture of AES countries well enough to present their history or political systems as effectively as Luna Oi, Lady Izdihar, or Yugopnik? Will he provide a more informed economic analysis than Michael Hudson or Richard Wolff? Is he going to be more detailed than Ben Norton at covering current affairs from an anti-imperialist perspective? Can he put together a news program as good as Breakthrough News?
No!
His niche is covering current events in an interactive and humorous way in order to break normies of their anti-AES and anti-communist brainworms.
His audience is mostly people who have been fed nothing but western propaganda their entire lives, usually cloaked in advocacy for free healthcare, vague anti-warism, and opposition to overt racism.
The bits of idealistic liberalism he often regurgitates serve as the peanut butter required for baby leftists in the west to swallow the pills that end up shattering their naïve worldview.
Hasan understands that if you only run defense for socialist countries, libs will immediately dismiss what you have to say as “shilling for authoritarianism” and never consider the rest of your message.
His content is simply not for us. He is shitposting in a strategic way that lets him build a big audience and walk it down the road towards Marxism. Elevating him to be the voice of the vanguard is artificially caps the pipeline. Us being critical of him supports his role by making him appear relatively nuanced to those libs. Eventually they will outgrow his content and join our ranks.
The Hasan hater cohort
I have him on for hours a day and it’s not out of animosity. I give him credit and indeed have in this thread, writing all critics off as “haters” is extremely parasocial behavior.
The bits of idealistic liberalism he often regurgitates serve as the peanut butter required for baby leftists in the west to swallow the pills that end up shattering their naïve worldview.
And this is garbage. Communists disdain to hide their aims and your idea about how left-radicalization works – besides being condescending to the point of misanthropy – is completely failing to appreciate the fundamental differences between Marxists and the irony-poisoned, nihilistic freaks on the extreme right, for whom recruitment based on lies makes more sense.
Hasan understands that if you only run defense for socialist countries, libs will immediately dismiss what you have to say as “shilling for authoritarianism” and never consider the rest of your message.
This isn’t the problem and if being a hardline socialist remotely resembles this in your view, then your mindset is totally backwards. I don’t give a shit about him not cheerleading for whichever country hard enough, that’s such a terminally online view of what politics is, I care about him misrepresenting Marxist theory and thereby hampering people’s political education beyond receiving a laundry list of berniecrat and antizionist talking points.
Us being critical of him supports his role
Then what are you even complaining about? I’m helping him, right?
writing all critics off as “haters” is extremely parasocial behavior.
detractors, people who dont like him, overzealous critics, whatever you want to call it. “haters” is succinct.
Communists disdain to hide their aims and your idea about how left-radicalization works
When you read the letter and not the spirit of the text. Indeed, we do not hide our aims: to build a stateless, classless, moneyless society. One of my aims is not to get myself socially ostracized for giving my real opinions on the DPRK before I’ve had time to let people understand that I am a kind, rational, well-adjusted person. The rapport you lose is more valuable than being honest for honesty’s sake. You do not have exclusive control over the conversation, nor are people required to hear you out or talk to you again. These are basic social skills, you speak to your audience, present phrasing favorable to their ideals, and find common ground.
Seriously, have you actually talked to your reactionary or turbolib peers IRL about this stuff? You out here quoting one line from a pamphlet released in 1848 and treating it like scripture. Oppose book worship.
I don’t give a shit about him not cheerleading for whichever country hard enough, that’s such a terminally online view of what politics is, I care about him misrepresenting Marxist theory and thereby hampering people’s political education beyond receiving a laundry list of berniecrat and antizionist talking points.
I don’t know where you live, but here in the imperial core, people’s political education is that Stalin killed a quadrillion people and that you get immediately executed for watching western movies in the DPRK. This is inseparable in their minds from your ideology. But yeah, these people would most certainly engage meaningfully with Marxist theory without addressing that…unless you plan on peanut butter pilling them by not naming what belief system your ideas originate from?
Clearing the minefields that come up in every conversation about socialism is a major assist in us being able to proliferate our views. Again, Hasan is not an expert in Marxism, why do you expect him to do your work for you? Do you really think him giving an overview of demcent or the mass line with these brainworms still intact would have any utility?
You are the one who comes across as terminally online. What if we had all entertainers recite our holy scripture in their performances? Surely, that would result in socialism being built and not cause people to watch other shit.
Then what are you even complaining about? I’m helping him, right?
I’m trying to have a polite discussion about a popular media figure’s effect on the public consciousness. Did I say something to set you off? I have no idea why you are being so antagonistic.
Leftists need a meta-organizing strategy lmao. This is the most “loose binding coalition”-ass set of ideologies that just turns into a damn circular firing squad at any given moment.
Want to feed the homeless? Cool FNB and your local PSL efforts can collab, stay 30 feet apart, maybe some go-betweens can coordinate resource sharing, but this constant bickering and shitting on each other is beyond enervating and “aesthetic online leftism” is nothing but a gift to the pedophile-porky class.
The thing about “solidarity” is it’s easier to feel connected to people from mutual approbation and caring. Western Leftism (especially online) is the opposite. But the West is largely a set of countries who would prefer some Amazon wage-slave run over the neighbor’s pet dog to get their package five seconds sooner, so who fucking cares. Burn it to the ground.
Problem is that posting online is easy and organizing is hard. Online, everyone wants to show off how smart, righteous, and correct they are for what they believe.
The truth of the matter is, what you believe does not matter so much as what you do.
Quite frankly, I do not believe there is any such thing as a cohesive left. We will have momentary alignment in struggles, which we will need to organize to meet the challenges of. Through the practice of struggle, practices will reveal themselves to be more effective than others, and certain theoretical ideas will prove themselves more useful for engaging in struggle. When operational considerations force your hand, rigid ideology will take a back seat to pragmatism.
💯
mutters “pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will” to myself for the 69420th time today
media personality that explains Marxism to the masses in a digestible way
If that’s his role then, given how badly he misrepresents theory, he should pack it in. Seriously, twisting Lenin to justify voting democrat? That’s pretty egregious.
I hope this doesn’t start a struggle session, but I don’t really understand this instances thing against posting Hasan stuff.
I see him as just sort of there. He’s not like, massively annoying and as far as I know there are worse streamers out there.
Is it just because streamer slop is super online and annoying or did he do something shitty I don’t know about? Don’t really follow him outside of the occasional clip.
Speaking personally, I generally like him, but again, hold a lot of suspicion toward public personalities. I find his success suspicious, but recognize that until further notice, the suspicion is only founded in vibes. Other than that, he has a pretty clean track record. The most egregious thing he’s done in my eyes is glaze Bernie Sanders and AOC, and offer them time on his platform.
AFAIK he hasn’t done anything egregious. Some definitely don’t like him for political reasons, but I think the thinking here is to avoid focusing so much on individuals or celebrities, and Hasan is just the most visible leftist personality among gen Z and millennials. But we should talk about him from time to time, he is very influential and IMO has fantastic politics compared to other political commentators with an audience his size
he’s not radical enough for some of us. i think it’s probably not possible for someone in his position to be as radical as we’d want because someone outwardly that radical wouldn’t ever get to that position, so i don’t get being mad about it either.
Yeah I’ve never really understood that criticism. We need the entryway to be less imposing if we want guests.
Every time I see a title like this take for granted that I know who this is, instead of being like “Hasan Piker (3M follower twitch news streamer)”, the way you would for like, the chief editor of a major newspaper, or the mayor of a third rate city, I think everyone on this site needs to touch grass.
i think a portion of it is people who have a weird parasocial relationship with him who get weirdly confrontational and combative if they perceive someone disparaging him even slightly. i also feel like these same people probably emphasize and get invested in the streamer/twitch drama aspect of what he does that i think generally is off putting to probably most people.
i know in the past he has directly commented on stream about these people and i for some reason have a memory of him calling them “little gremlins.”
I’ll admit I got pretty annoyed with people who were out there parrotting that stupid electric collar story. I do watch Hasan YouTube videos, I find majority report really tedious and liberal. But like sometimes I want to hear the news from a non insane perspective.
i think i worded it a bit poorly, i didn’t have an outright lie like Kayagate in my mind when i wrote that. rather i was referring to the people who get disproportionately hostile over the mildest thing because they’re taking someone not liking Hasan as much as them personally. there’s probably a better way to phrase it but i cant think of it at the moment
it’s making a lot of libs mad too, which is funny, cause i thought this was a democracy
By not caving immediately he is forcing them to look goofy for continuing to make hay out of these theatrics years out from the election
And to his credit, whether intended or not, he is helping to prevent the whitewashing of Gruesome ahead of any major prominence regarding an election, and making the libs that made a big to-do about how they would vote for Newsome defend why they hate the homeless too
It’s good slop, a bunch of liberal hand wringers tried to make the press by scolding him and instead our jumbo hunk mascot said “no u” and it made them look bad
Just like how the liberal believes in abstract rights, not concrete rights, they only believe in the concept of democracy. A politician having to earn your vote is a proposterous idea to them.
Whether or not you agree with his positions or approach, he has been very consistent. I think this is overall a good thing. He does hear people to his left, he isn’t ignorant, and he even platforms those viewpoints to his audience when he interacts or denounces them.
plugging the comm that I made for discussing celebrities and trends !popularculture@hexbear.net
Ya this sounds good for that comm
Our big wet apolitical streamer; Hank Pecker
at least one slop streamer has to have a spine in the USA and not be a sellout
Yeah, I don’t think he has demonstrated conviction really (we’ll see what he says sooner to the election), but I was definitely pleasantly surprised by his recent comment.
In 2040 he will finally see the value in the immortal science and we will achieve communism within a year.
I know this is a joke, but he is literally the face of “chinamaxxing” in the US and fully believes in the immortal science. He also recognizes his position as someone who has the largest left of liberal platform in the US and intends to preserve it while offering clear outlets to his left (such as “no, there is no reason to commit to voting for Gavin newsom 2 years ahead of the election cycle” as a veryyy basic starting point).
He does get stuck in “there is no alternative to the democrats and I can’t even imagine one”-land though, that’s the biggest flaw. Even in that case its along the lines of “even if I’m stuck with them, I don’t need to be nice to them or promote them uncritically”. For those wondering, he has also offered criticism of Zohran on stream as well for many of the things you see on Hexbear, although he is less incisive with it.
I am offering this not as a “Stan” or anything, but to inform others who (rightfully) ignore streamer content but may be curious about where a prominent American socialist media figure stands.
I don’t think he believes in the immortal science but he does adhere to defending AES (and the global south in general) and that is better than like 80% of Western leftists. He’s about as good as you could expect from a streamer with any significant following.
deleted by creator
He is not a Leninist theoretician, he is a Lenin hypebeast.
He tells democrats (who would otherwise reject him if he advocated for nonparticipation in bourgeois elections) that you can still vote for “the lesser evil” while understanding that Marxism and overthrowing the bourgeois state is the only path forward if they want to achieve their goals.
His whole schtick is torturing ML thought into something disillusioned Bernie fans can accept, knowing that many of these people will eventually seek real ML theory once their anti-communist programming has been reversed. You cannot accept Lenin’s theoretical contributions until you have accepted that Lenin is someone worth listening to.
He is the direct counterpart to the fascists that are “just asking questions” in order to lead you to their desired conclusion that ethnic cleansing is in fact very cool and absolutely necessary. These are the most effective fascists precisely because they don’t open with “Nazi Germany was based, and the holocaust was righteous” while reciting Adolf Hitlerisms. Doing roman salutes on stream hinders their ability to pass along their audience to the guy who is openly sieg heiling.
I thought I had deleted it quickly enough because I realized how tedious it would be to argue about this.
(who would otherwise reject him if he advocated for nonparticipation in bourgeois elections)
This was not Lenin’s position, and it’s the same bullshit false dichotomy I’ve seen him bring up before (Marxist icon Contra also did this). Lenin very explicitly argued against the main socialist faction that held this position (the Otzovists), maintaining that the vanguard must do both legal and illegal work, with running as a distinct communist party being an element of the legal work.
I would also say that he is torturing ML thought, but the problem is that there is no building a socialist movement on false pretenses, and I have repeatedly seen the contempt with which he treats people representing the actual revolutionary nature of Marxism. You can see in his chat in any such instance that he has trained his community very well to go “based” “chad” at whatever image of select revolutionaries but to reject the substance of their thought and call people with a basic understanding “ultras.”
You cannot accept Lenin’s theoretical contributions until you have accepted that Lenin is someone worth listening to.
Using quote-mining to misrepresent Lenin while sneering at his actual positions is not the way to accomplish this. There are many things that you can do, of which probably the easiest pitch is to simply explain in plain English some of theoretical basis of Marxist political philosophy, which I know sounds scary because I used big words at the same time as talking about popular communication, but you can explain to any functionally-illiterate high school dropout what (for example) class antagonism is and why it is irreconcilable, I’m just counting on not needing to use small words in order to mention it to you in order to demonstrate this point. Nonetheless, I will if you need me to.
Disillusionment is an incredibly valuable thing, and he should be exploiting it by deepening the disillusionment rather than being slightly to the left of the other berniecrats while continuing to punch left.
This was not Lenin’s position, and it’s the same bullshit false dichotomy I’ve seen him bring up before
Not claiming this, just voicing what I think Hasan is trying to do. Obviously, Hasan is not well read on Lenin.
but the problem is that there is no building a socialist movement on false pretenses
Right, but is Hasan actually involved with building any sort of socialist movement? No serious Marxist claims him as a thought leader, nor is he trying to lead a vanguard party. He’s essentially talking out his ass while trying to kill off common brainworms about Marxism that didn’t exist in earlier revolutionaries’ times.
and I have repeatedly seen the contempt with which he treats people representing the actual revolutionary nature of Marxism. You can see in his chat in any such instance that he has trained his community very well to go “based” “chad” at whatever image of select revolutionaries but to reject the substance of their thought and call people with a basic understanding “ultras.”
He’s conditioning people’s first reaction upon seeing references to Marxist leaders to be “hell yeah!” Unsure if that was supposed to be an example of contempt, but I wouldn’t call it that, maybe disregard or ignorance. I would not characterize him as training people to reject the substance of Marxist thought, given he tells people to read theory all the time (despite not having done so himself)
Using quote-mining to misrepresent Lenin while sneering at his actual positions is not the way to accomplish this.
My point is that even empty, positive references to Lenin, AES countries, etc. are net beneficial because his value does not come from education, it comes from debunking obvious slander and destigmatizing Marxist words, countries, leaders.
There are many things that you can do, of which probably the easiest pitch is to simply explain in plain English some of theoretical basis of Marxist political philosophy,
Trust me, you and I both wish he would present actual theory on stream. Despite my defense of him, I do not think his streams are good place to go for serious political education, but that is very much not his audience. His audience wants to casually consume the news with leftish commentary and humor.
I think this is where our fundamental disagreement comes from. You are looking for him to be more serious, but that is not what his audience is there for. Hasan’s streams are entertainment, and he is closer to Bill Burr or Dan Carlin than even the Citations Needed guys, let alone any real leader. As far as entertainment goes, I cannot find any contemporary figure that has a more positive impact given how much he has done to destigmatize AES and Marxism.
You seem to evaluate him as if he intends to be as serious as you want him to be, which I think lends itself to seeing him in an uncharitable light. His job is to make the masses more receptive to us. Our job is to educate. His popularity is doing us a huge favor.
Nonetheless, I will if you need me to.
Is this a jab at me? No need to insult me because I don’t think a twitch streamer is the heir apparent to Lenin.
