Hi friends. Is it fucked up to flirt with someone with no intention of taking it further? I’m in a long-term monogamous relationship. Sometimes I crave a little validation from strangers. I’m not going to cheat on my partner, but I do have a need to feel desirable to others. I don’t feel like a bit of flirting is a betrayal of my relationship, but I’m less confident about how other people feel. Like, I don’t want to waste someone else’s time, but I guess maybe I am leading people on a bit if I chat with them without mentioning my partner.
Didn’t realize I’d start a struggle sesh.
If you flirt with me I will not realize it, so, technically not leading anyone on there
What makes it flirting rather than a nice chat between strangers? I don’t mean in general, i mean specifically in your imagined scenario what would make it flirting?
This is a good question and honestly I don’t have a great answer. I’ve never been very good at it, but in this instance let’s say any friendly attention from a stranger at the bar.
Yeah if you go to a bar, start talking to someone and have a nice time i don’t see the issue as long as you don’t make specific ‘moves’ to arm like you want more than a nice drink
What counts as flirting in the year 2026?
It’s flirting only if it comes from the LeadOn region of Gloucestershire, England. Otherwise it’s just sparkling conversation.
Took me way more comments to realize i also need to know this
We are not old
some of the perspectives shared make me want to brandonize myself with a railroad spike a little bit.
I’ve been flirting with the beautiful mods so they don’t remove my posts. It’s all about flattery.
Honestly for me, friendly attention from a stranger.
Yeah it’s nice to have. There is nothing wrong with some friendly attention.
A lot of the feedback you are getting is varied because of how vague a concept flirting really is.
The whole idea is to sus out someone’s interest.
call me oldschool but if you’ve had a conversation about it with your partner and they don’t mind, a bit of flirting is nice as a treat.
I’m really asking about the perspective of the third party. I’m OK with it, my partner’s OK with it. What I want to know is the stranger in the bar OK with it. I know every stranger is different, but in general, how big a deal is this?
yeah and I’m saying in my opinion its not even a factor
just like accepting a drink from a man doesn’t obligate a woman to have sex with him, neither does flirting with a person obligate or necessitate that you be available for further romantic complications.
Dating already sucks and is miserable. Self-consciously going into an interaction with the goal of deceiving someone for attention is a shitty behavior. No, that does not oblige you to fuck them or whatever, literally no one here is saying that and such an idea is ridiculous and disgusting. What some people (myself included) are saying is that that initial action, the pre-meditated deception, is hurtful to people for no good reason.
deceiving someone for attention
pre-mediated deception
incel ass logic
I remember in the past seeing passing mention that hexbear had an incel problem but I mostly disregarded it because it seemed like it would get shut down quickly. I also have a lot of empathy for lonely men (and all lonely people) in this fucked up society even if I have zero tolerance for using that as an excuse for misogyny. But every now and then a thread will come up that really does confirm there is still an undercurrent of incel “thought” even on hexbear.
Self-consciously going into an interaction with the goal of deceiving someone for attention is a shitty behavior
Thats not what flirting is and I’m concerned with how transactional some people seem to see it being.
That’s a horseshit accusation. Obviously that’s not what flirting in general is, and I never made a claim to the contrary. From the OP:
but I guess maybe I am leading people on a bit if I chat with them without mentioning my partner.
What is the relevance of mentioning or not mentioning their partner? Might we glean that the OP acknowledges something about the social nature of their behavior?
What sort of transaction are you trying to accuse me of asserting? I don’t want to fuck some asshole behaving deceptively toward me, I just don’t want to be deceived in the first place. I have no interest in any sort of “transaction” here, I want to be treated with an extremely baseline respect, not on a transactional basis but because I’m a human being, just like me treating other people with baseline respect should not depend on them doing something for me first or being somehow bound to do something for me after.
Where does this deception you keep harping on even come into it? There is no deception in flirting with someone even if you don’t plan to form a romantic relationship with them. It’s just playful banter, it’s not a promise to take it any further than the flirtation itself. The fact that you default to flirtation without a desire to take it further as being some form of deception is what makes it sound like you think there is something transactionable about it. It makes it sound like if someone flirts with you, that you then have an expectation of them that they want to go further than just flirting, when that need not be the case.
just like me treating other people with baseline respect should not depend on them doing something for me first or being somehow bound to do something for me after.
Just as flirting doesn’t bind anyone to to do anything later either. So again, where is the deception in flirting with someone when you don’t actually want to pursue a relationship with them? I would guess that most flirtation doesn’t mean the person initiating it is seeking anything more. You talk about baseline respect, but I think flirtation is inherently respectful when done right, it is giving another person positive affirmations.
If an omission would change someone else’s behavior, it seems deceptive.
Where does this deception you keep harping on even come into it?
read OP again.
monogamous relationship OP is asking about flirting with people for some kind of external validation with no intention of disclosing relationship status or unavailability.
this is directly and explicitly deceiving and using the unwitting person.
that is what OP literally described doing
flirting implies the further complications are possible to begin with. the whole social purpose of flirting is a plausibly deniable offer to escalate towards them.
it is incredibly cruel to dangle something in front of someone when you have no intention of following through.
it’s one thing if you flirt for a while and don’t feel it, but it’s evil if you go into it misrepresenting your intentions.
At what point is flirting so obvious that it’s dangling in front of you but is also at the same time “plausibly deniable?”
a successful run goes something like
opening move -> reciprocity -> escalation -> escalation -> escalation -> etc -> romantic and/or sexual entanglement
so i’d say 3 is where you have the opportunity to say thanks and move on having had an exchange of compliments rather than necessarily flirting, and if you stick around for the second round of escalation then you’re indicating you’re potentially down for something and somebody like OP would be there in bad faith.
and again this is about the case where OP is deliberately being a vampire, if you’re flirting with somebody for a while and decide not to continue for whatever reason that’s fine, but you shouldn’t start the process if you’re completely closed off to begin with.
A SUCCESSFUL RUN i am going to puke, hooking up is not a video game. What is this PUA shit??? WTF?
like run-through? older term than video games lol
I suppose the framing of flirtation in the OP is necessarily different than something you may not even realize was happening until 2 weeks later because of the intention.
I don’t really understand the flowchart but i see what you’re saying. There’s a point where both parties are aware that explicit flirting is happening and if that wasnt where OP wanted to take it there wouldn’t be a question.
The amount of times I’ve had someone tell me I’ve been flirted with or thought about an interaction weeks later where “…wait were they flirting or just being nice?” Made me think OP was gonna go around complimenting people and seeing if they got a nice response…
see this is how I think about it. And if the person doesn’t seem into the flirtation, I withdraw. I don’t ever assume that flirtation is an invitation for something further unless explicitly stated.
Honestly, I’d get a bit annoyed it isn’t going anywhere, but I’m sure I’d feel better about myself having a confirmation I’m attractive to others
don’t fucking give me hope if you’re categorically unwilling to fulfill that hope
I mean, I believe in consent in every step of the way. Flirtation is only the first step and if nothing is ever progressed past that, I can only assume I’m not invited to go further.
that being said, I am aware that people think like this and that is why I don’t think it’s safe to flirt with random strangers.
this is about initiating the interaction on false pretenses or not. don’t signal potential interest if there’s no potential interest. certainly don’t do it if you’re some attention vampire like OP described.
it’s not about whether you’re dtf in the nearest bathroom stall or proposing marriage
I appreciate your comment. I absolutely don’t want to bum anyone out.
I’ve been in this position so many times.
Personally as a third party this would not bother me really. I could see myself being a little disappointed if I wanted to take things further, but to me someone casually flirting with me has never implied to me that there’s necessarily anything more there. I’m pretty surprised at how negatively some of the other people here are reacting, honestly.
I’m starting to think flirting means something more explicit to the majority here than it does to me.
Trying to figure out if it was implied that the person being flirted with gets given a phone number or contact information?
Are we assuming OP is going to be laying it on thick then just go “ah, just kidding, thanks for the validation” or what?
Yeah I don’t know what others are imagining here, I have to think they’re seeing flirting as something more committal than me, but I don’t know if that’s us talking about different things or others being entitled. Like to me it just feels good to be flirted with. it gives me a boost in confidence, and I like returning that feeling. I think mutual flirting with someone opens up an appropriate avenue for asking to take things further without worrying about coming across as creepy, but expecting things to go further is totally different. Frankly, if I was on the fence about whether to date someone and they reacted angrily to me flirting with no intent to go further, that would be a huge red flag and tell me I made the right choice avoiding going further with them.
Frankly, if I was on the fence about whether to date someone and they reacted angrily to me flirting with no intent to go further, that would be a huge red flag and tell me I made the right choice avoiding going further with them.
And if I found out that someone was “flirting” with me while deliberately avoiding mentioning that they have an SO so that I would provide them with “validation” over the course of a conversation, it’d be at least a mild consolation to know that the person in question was not worth being involved with.
That’s fine, that’s your preference. The thing I said that you quoted wasn’t super applicable to this situation anyways, since the OP knows they don’t want to pursue any sort of relationship, whereas I was commenting from a perspective of uncertainty, so maybe I shouldn’t have even included that part. Personally I wouldn’t hide that I have an SO if I were in the OP’s shoes, but I still don’t think that’s really the other parties business if OP is never intending to be romantic/sexual with their flirting partner anyways. To me it feels reminiscent of cis people getting mad if I don’t disclose that I’m trans to someone I’m flirting with because they may not be into me if they knew. But like if we aren’t actually committing to anything, then why is it their business? It’s not quite the same because there is an actual danger to disclosing transness to someone you don’t know, whereas disclosing that you have a partner likely won’t put you in danger, but I think the general idea that it isn’t actually the other person’s business unless you are going to have a romantic/sexual relationship with them is the same.
Why put flirting and validation in scare quotes? Mutual flirting goes both ways after all, both participants are validated. I don’t think that validation or the words expressed become less real just because there is no intent to follow up on them.
That’s fine, that’s your preference.
Maybe it’s worth considering then that, if we’re talking about a proposed habitual behavior toward strangers, what matters is not just if anyone is fine with it but what the odds are that over several goes, it will be hurtful to some people?
To me it feels reminiscent of cis people getting mad if I don’t disclose that I’m trans to someone I’m flirting with because they may not be into me if they knew. But like if we aren’t actually committing to anything, then why is it their business? It’s not quite the same because there is an actual danger to disclosing transness to someone you don’t know, whereas disclosing that you have a partner likely won’t put you in danger, but I think the general idea that it isn’t actually the other person’s business unless you are going to have a romantic/sexual relationship with them is the same.
I think the part about you potentially being put in danger is a pretty important distinction! In fact, I think it’s pretty difficult to abstract away from that fact. Let me know if another analogy occurs to you.
Why put flirting and validation in scare quotes?
For the sake of brevity, disgust at the cutesy way they describe this behavior, etc. Let me know if you think further explanation is important.
Mutual flirting goes both ways after all, both participants are validated. I don’t think that validation or the words expressed become less real just because there is no intent to follow up on them.
I’m sure you have already come to the conclusion that our perspectives are wildly different and quite difficult to reconcile owing at least in part to our different experiences (statistically, you’ve been hit on more in a ~2 year period than I have in my whole life, based on your other comment), but I hope that you can understand why someone deliberately misleading me to milk some compliments out of me for the sake of their “need”* for validation while not having the slightest possibility of any genuine interest in me at any point might not actually be a super validating experience for me. Someone condescending to telling me what they think I want to hear so that I express interest in them and they feel good about themselves does not appeal to me.
*in this case I meant it as the more straightforward “what they are calling it is absolutely not what it really is” marker, if you’re wondering.
Maybe it’s worth considering then that, if we’re talking about a proposed habitual behavior toward strangers, what matters is not just if anyone is fine with it but what the odds are that over several goes, it will be hurtful to some people?
Well that’s why I commented in the first place, because I saw that there were many people reacting negatively to what the OP is doing, and I personally would not, but once the general consensus starts to form on a post like this it becomes difficult to voice a dissenting opinion. I feel that it’s worthwhile then for me to share my feelings so if others feel the same as me they can either upvote my comment or feel more comfortable adding their own, so the OP has a fuller range of opinions to work with. I think regardless, if this many people are bothered by it then the OP should seriously consider whether continuing to do what they are doing is the right choice.
I think the part about you potentially being put in danger is a pretty important distinction! In fact, I think it’s pretty difficult to abstract away from that fact. Let me know if another analogy occurs to you.
You could use kinks as another analogy I suppose. Like, if I want to have sex in a specific way that may not be comfortable for the other party, obviously I should disclose that before we’ve committed to actually having sex. But if we aren’t going to have sex, then I think it’s entirely appropriate not to disclose that, because it isn’t relevant to the flirting itself. Or for a romantic example, if I expect certain things out of a relationship, like that we are in that relationship long-term or that we go on a certain number of dates a week or something, that’s not something that is necessary to disclose until it’s actually relevant, and if there is no intention of ever pursuing a romantic relationship, then I think never bringing it up isn’t wrong.
I’m sure you have already come to the conclusion that our perspectives are wildly different and quite difficult to reconcile owing at least in part to our different experiences (statistically, you’ve been hit on more in a ~2 year period than I have in my whole life, based on your other comment), but I hope that you can understand why someone deliberately misleading me to milk some compliments out of me for the sake of their “need”* for validation while not having the slightest possibility of any genuine interest in me at any point might not actually be a super validating experience for me. Someone condescending to telling me what they think I want to hear so that I express interest in them and they feel good about themselves does not appeal to me.
Well, I did mention that people started flirting with me a lot more after transitioning. I’m familiar with the feeling of basically never being flirted with and going many years without a romantic relationship. And sorry, but I don’t think the OP’s behavior would have bothered me then either.
But really more what I’m struggling to understand is why people here are seeing flirting without a desire to take that further as not genuine interest. You seem to be assuming that if they flirt with you because they want to be flirted with in return, that they don’t mean what they are saying, but I don’t think that is necessarily true. Whether or not I’m intending to pursue a relationship with someone, I would not flirt with them if I didn’t mean it. When you say they do not have the slightest possibility of any genuine interest in you, that they are deceiving you, that they are telling you what you want to hear to milk compliments out of you and so you express interest in them, it reveals that:
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You don’t think it’s possible for someone to mean what they say when they flirt if they don’t follow through with their flirting, which isn’t true.
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That flirting and being flirted with because it feels good is not a sufficient reason to flirt, and that they must commit beyond that. You have an expectation that if you and someone else are flirting that they will necessarily want to date you and/or have sex with you, or even that they are obligated to. Consider how obviously wrong this line of thinking would be if you remove the sexual aspect from this. If you were to get mad at someone for joking with you at the bus stop but then revealing they do not want to be your friend, that would obviously be ridiculous.
I’m not saying you aren’t allowed to have hurt feelings if someone did what the OP does to you. But I think this way of thinking about flirting is unhealthy, and I don’t think it’s the OP’s responsibility to manage that for others. If they want to stop anyways because of it, that’s understandable, but it isn’t enough to convince me that what they are doing is actually wrong.-
do you get people trying to flirt with you a lot? I have had people express interest in me maybe three times in my entire life.
Nah I wouldn’t say a lot, but it’s not super rare for it to happen. At one point it was maybe once every 4-6 months or so[1]? But these days I don’t go out much because of the pandemic, so it doesn’t happen as often. It happens a lot more now than it did before I started transitioning, I think partly because I became a lot more friendly and comfortable with complimenting people once I felt more like myself. I’m also non-monogamous, pretty openly sex-positive, and live in an area with a lot of other queer people, so I’m sure that contributes plenty as well.
Definitely more frequently if you include online, but if someone is flirting with me online it’s probably in an online space that is explicitly sexual so I wouldn’t count that for this conversation. ↩︎
that sounds like a lot to me, but i haven’t spoken to anyone outside of a workplace in years
I go out a fair amount, usually to one bar for Karaoke and I get hit on and/or flirt with folks pretty often. It definitely depends on the setting and familiarity with those involved.
I think the spaces you are in make a big difference for this, yeah. It doesn’t really feel like a lot to me compared to some people I know, but maybe it is above average, I’m not sure. Almost none of that flirting actually went anywhere, for what it’s worth.
Yeah, I’m thinking what we consider flirting may be equivalent to a friendly chat to some.
I haven’t had to worry about it in a long time so
I don’t like it personally but I am someone who has led most of their life being lonely and I have been severely mentally ill. People often end up taking it too far and then it’s goodbye, I have a partner btw.
I feel like it’s a good way to trigger insecurity in your existing partner that over time blossoms into a fully toxic situation that kills your own attraction to them and ultimately the relationship.
It isn’t wrong per se but I feel like it is playing with fire and ultimately self harming in many cases. Very careful management of trust and those insecurities that creep in would be needed to not let that happen, and even in people who are very aware of this issue it can still happen anyway if the right(or wrong) body chemicals are mixing in a certain way on a certain day.
You should talk to a therapist to help you figure out why you have this urge to hurt random strangers to make you feel better about yourself.
“Talk to a therapist to make your behavior conform to my expectations” is a deeply ableist idea.
Complete misunderstanding of what I said. I said talk to a therapist to address the underlying issue which inspires this harmful behavior, not the behavior itself.
No, i understood you fairly well, you were just being an ableist shit like everybody using the “go to therapy” line.
Recommending therapy is inherently ableist? No.
Doing it like a snarky, condescending redditor to shut people up is.
But that’s not what I did at all. It was a sincere recommendation made in good faith.
I’d recommend you stop violating rule 8 from the code of conduct:
when engaging with your fellow users please take the most charitable interpretation and assume good faith.
You should just stop violating rule 4. Also no, i will not take the most charitable interpretation when somebody is acting openly ableist and gives off incel vibes, i will call it as it is.
I’d like to chime in here to say that you weren’t exactly observing this when you accuse me of having the “urge to hurt random strangers”.
Are we assuming OP is going to like ask for someone’s number and call them beautiful just to ghost them or something? What about being flirted with by a random person you never talk to again hurts?
I am trying to see if my idea of flirting is off from the majority
I used to have this flirty interaction with a boy on the regular, I was gently teasing him by not complying with his job, and being like “aha, im not showing you my ID. teehee.” nothing that was more than five seconds of interaction. Well, one morning he decided to ask me out and I had to tell him I had a boyfriend.
The people who observed this were telling me like “oh that’s what you get” and I’m like ??? it’s not like I was telling him I wanted to [invitation to redacted sexual act] or something geez. I wasn’t out to hurt the dude or anything, but that is what ended up happening. 😅
your story sounds indistinguishable from signaling interest to me. he asked you out not to a hotel room, so unless you’re leaving out a lot i’m not sure why you’re going from 0 to sex act there.
Oh yeah to me that’s fine being playful can certainly be flirty but no it didn’t mean you were “asking to be asked out” or something
non-consensually using flirtcels to ego-farm would be considered cruelty. If you’re cold, they’re cold, let them inside.
It’s normal and fun, just don’t lead them onto thinking it’s something more.
I just wanna say how about we drop the entire exclusivity paradigm but hey you do you
No thank you! Appreciate the idea, though.
I appreciate that perspective. Different strokes for different folks. I’m sure nonexclusivity can come with its own challenges.
Why do you need to not mention your partner would be my question. I mean sure, if it doesn’t come up, but it seems like you want to actively not mention them.
That in my opinion would be the only problem with this.
This is a good question. I don’t want to lie about anything. I wear a ring, and if asked I will say (and usually gush). That said, here’s what happens: I don’t ever approach a woman with the intention of flirting. If I want to converse with someone at the bar I’ll invariably mention my partner pretty quickly to make it clear that I’m not hitting on her. I feel differently if I’m approached. I find it very flattering, and I want to enjoy that feeling for a few minutes.
All good in my opinion, we all are humans and have the flattering and not so flattering features of our species.
